All Five Star Trek Captains Share a Stage 238
An anonymous reader writes "Just after half past seven on the evening of Friday 19th October, history was made at the Destination Star Trek London event at the capital's ExCel centre; when Captains Archer (Scott Bakula), Janeway (Kate Mulgrew), Sisko (Avery Brooks), Picard (Patrick Stewart) and James T. Kirk (William Shatner) appeared together on a European stage. This momentous event, which had occurred just once before, at the Wizard World Comic Con in Philadelphia in June, not only lived up to the expectations of fans, but exceeded them by a good light-year."
Look, nothing against Star Trek... (Score:2, Insightful)
...but I think that only counts as "history" in the very loosest sense.
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Patents have "on the internet" to make old things new, while geeks and nerds have "outside the US".
The two they left behind (Score:2, Informative)
They're forgetting Jeffery Hunter and Bruce Greenwood. They were also captains of the enterprise, albeit for one episode. Some will say they don't count , but being an captain is worthy of recognition.
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Bruce Greenwood
Nothing against him, but I'd rather pretend JJ Trek never happened.
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I'd rather have trek dead that that abomination. It's time for some new series anyway. It was great, but it's time is past.
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The main problem is that, for some inexplicable reason, Paramount does not use Star Trek fans to make Star Trek.
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The main problem is that, for some inexplicable reason, Paramount does not use Star Trek fans to make Star Trek.
The reason, unfortunately, is that all the fans of star trek can not bring in the same money as the current target audience does, thus trek is made for the undereducated masses that don't even care in passing about trek :/
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I agree there. The plot could have been made a whole lot more palatable if they'd used the Guardian of Forever to "reboot" rather than <shudder>red matter<shudder>.
But using "Particle of the day" to do it is sooooooo Star Trek Canon :D
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Particle of the Week was indeed very annoying, but Red Matter was even worse (because of its vastly more potent effects; the PotWs were usually just used to detect things, not cause planets to implode into singularities). And I think we also have higher expectations of feature films than to resort to lame plot devices like this. The PotWs should have been something the writers learned from, so that they don't repeat that mistake.
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Or if they hadn't done a time travel plot at all. I hate alternate history timelines. I love Next Generation- that crew no longer even exists. If you want to show a prequel of Star Trek with how the crew gets together, fine. Use new actors for the old roles. Or do a story from somewhere else in the timeline they lived. Don't rewrite the entire history and change the personalities of everyone we loved. I wouldn't want to watch a series based on that, that version of Kirk and Spock have no interest to
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If you want to show a prequel of Star Trek with how the crew gets together, fine. Use new actors for the old roles. Or do a story from somewhere else in the timeline they lived. Don't rewrite the entire history and change the personalities of everyone we loved.
Yes. Excellent point. I agree whole-heartedly. Do up a Captain Pike era series or something. How about a story arc on how the Prime Directive came to be and what devastation was caused by not having it.
Re: Abrams Style (Score:2)
The whole Vulcans as Lost Souls thing was completely skipped over. That is terrifying from the point of view of Trek Canon. The Vulvcans were the total Deus Ex Vulcan Fix-It when everyone was totally screwed and needed one man without iron in his blood and mind melds and all that. Now with however many of them left from a dead race, it's veering towards Star Wars and the last Jedi.
However bad the Canon got after 40-50 years, you just can't do that and pretend it's still Star Trek as normal.
Bonus Points to
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Out of curiosity (and at the risk of opening a huge can of worms), and as someone who has enjoyed most interpretations of Star Trek but was never moved to the point of obsession or "trekkie" status... what was wrong with that movie? I liked it a lot.
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It's not how they would have made it, plus giant transparent pipes filled with water, plus a planet that figured in a like, two episodes ever, got wiped out.
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agreed i have watched all of the movies and all of the shows (actually didn't care for the original series as much) and while startrek (Abrams) was not the best (first contact was, fallowed by insurrection). but it definitely wasn't the worst (star trek the motion picture was)
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Wrong; Star Trek V was the absolute worst. TMP was second. Generations was third. Insurrection was kinda lame, definitely not one of the best.
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Re:The two they left behind (Score:4, Interesting)
They're forgetting Jeffery Hunter and Bruce Greenwood.
Why leave out Sean Kenney from the Pike actors?
According to what I can find out, the full list of Enterprise captains, not counting alternate realities, cartoons, non-crewmembers like Bele, Khan, Q or Moriarty taking over, nor the 2009 travesty are:
NCC-1701:
Robert April: James Doohan, Gene Roddenberry
Christopher Pike: Jeffrey Hunter, Sean Kenney, Bruce Greenwood
James Tiberius Kirk: William Shatner
Willard Decker: Stephen Collins
Spock: Leonard Nimoy (mutiny)
NCC-1701-A:
James Tiberius Kirk: William Shatner
NCC-1701-B:
John Harriman: Alan Ruck
Demora Sulu: Jacqueline Kim
NCC-1701-C:
Rachel Garrett: Tricia O'Neil
Richard Castillo: Christopher McDonald
NCC-1701-D:
Jean-Luc Picard: Patrick Stewart
William T. Riker: Jonathan Frakes
Edward Jellico: Ronny Cox
Guinan: Whoopi Goldberg
Wesley Crusher: Wil Wheaton (mutiny)
NCC-1701-E:
Jean-Luc Picard: Patrick Stewart
Honorable mention to the Enterprise OV-101 captains:
Fred Haise: Himself
Joseph Henry Engle: Himself
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Guinan: Whoopi Goldberg
Wesley Crusher: Wil Wheaton (mutiny)
What episodes are you referring to? In the case of Wesley, I recall The Naked Now, but it was merely a self-proclamation. Of course, nearly every regular cast member was given command at one point or another.
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I'm sorry, being put in command of the Enterprise briefly does not make one a "captain". That's a rank that has to be officially assigned. Lots of crewmembers were put in command of the ship at some time; the Captain has to sleep sometime, after all, and sometime's he's away at some archaeological conference.
However, Spock was himself a captain (by rank, not mutiny), in the movies, though he never had full command of a ship.
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I'm sorry, but no. Unless Starfleet Command has pinned the rank of Captain on your collar, you're not a Starfleet Captain.
You misunderstood what captain is. It's not just a rank. A ship can have many officers of captain's rank, and none of them may be the ship's captain.
Admiral James Tiberius Kirk was the captain of the Enterprise at one point. He was still the captain of the ship, not the admiral of the ship.
This is not specific to Star Trek. Heard of "Master and Commander"? The point of stating both is that the highest ranking person isn't always the one who commands the ship.
When you assume the position of full author
"Five", not "All Five" (Score:2)
What about Kirk from re-image, and wasn't Sulu a captain? I'm not even counting Spock, just thinking bridge captains that played major roles. Yeah Sulu didn't play a major role as a bridge captain but certainly played a rather large role up to that point.
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Though I think Sisko had the grade of captain in the last seasons of DS9.
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Did we all forget Jerk Jerk A's Ensign commander of the flag ship of star fleet, version of a Captain. From thinking from the gut big mouth bar brawler, to cheating cadet on to "saviour of the universe", 'er', Federation of Planets 'er' excluding Vulcan but hey who needed those boring logical dudes they think too much ;D.
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Spock was the bridge captain in Khan, but gave up that role to Adm. Kirk when they were sent to check on Regula I. He played a major role in the story, though not as bridge captain.
Captain Pike? (Score:5, Informative)
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The one who came before Kirk in the original series pilot. Last I saw he was either cavorting with a lady in his imagination or in a bad wheelchair, going "beep beep" (no) over and over.
I heard he got hired for the Davros role in Doctor Who...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davros [wikipedia.org]
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And lets not forget Rachel Garrett, captain of Enterprise C, portrayed by Tricia O'Neil...
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Nor can we forget William Riker, played by Jonathan Frakes, who captained the Enterprise-D [memory-alpha.org] in one possible future [memory-alpha.org].
Too Cool, but let's hope Avery Brooks... (Score:2)
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I actually enjoyed "The Captains", which happens to be streamable on Netflix [netflix.com] if anyone is curious. Not that it qualifies as high cinema by any stretch of the imagination...
Sure, Shatner plays Shatner - but still it was fun. I especially got a kick out of Avery Brooks turning out to be some sort of beatnik professor in real life. And Kate Mulgrew did seem capable of throwing Shatner off his game a bit.
Plus the editing in the convention scenes sure made it look like Shatner was having a bit of fun at his own
Serious Question re: History (Score:4)
How is it history if it has already happened once before?
Deep Space 9 had a captain? (Score:2)
Don't go anywhere - continue to be right here!
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It may surprise you to learn that "captain" is also a rank, not just a job description.
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Never heard of a port captain, hey?
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Picard should have been a Commodore. There are a couple of episodes where he is commanding a flotilla of ships.
Re:Best "Deranged" Captain... (Score:4, Informative)
Except for brief periods of time in the US navy, commodore has always been a temporary title, not a rank. You got to be a commodore (temporarily) if you were put in command of a group of ships and either the admiral liked you and wanted to give you a chance to wear extra gold braid, or there was some need to clearly elevate you above the other captains (for example, if one of the others was senior to you but you were supposed to be in overall command).
So Decker would have been a captain with the title of commodore while he was commanding a task force, and IIRC Picard generally commanded multiple ships in emergencies and impromptu fleets, where he would have taken command as senior captain.
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My understanding of it is that "Commodore" is the title used by a visiting officer who outranks the ship's captain. Because there is only one captain on a ship and the crew can be in no doubt as to who's in charge. The Commodore may be the highest-ranking officer on board, but the captain is in charge.
Trrying to create a "Geek Hole"? (Score:2)
Arguably the most important Enterprise Captain... (Score:4, Informative)
...was Rachel Garrett (played by Tricia O'Neil), captain of the NCC-1701-C. Her decision to sacrifice her ship and crew averted all-out war with the Klingons, saved the Federation and saved billions of lives. That's a tough act to follow.
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I seem to recall that she was killed and that a lieutenant junior grade in her command was the one who had to take the ship back in time in an act of self-sacrifice to prevent all-out war with the Klingons in the future. Pfft. Everyone knows that.
<_<
>_>
Oh, okay, who am I kidding? I just looked it up on memory-alpha. *throws up hands*
The best captain? (Score:2)
Well, that would be the Emergency Command Hologram, of course!
Anyone who disagrees will be disintegrated by the photonic canon!
What's CloudFlare? (Score:2)
"This website uses CloudFlare in order to help keep it online when the server is down by serving cached copies of pages when they are unavailable. Unfortunately, a cached copy of the page you requested is not available, but you may be able to reach other cached pages on the site."
FAIL
For your convenience (Score:2)
In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion... In my opinion...
There. Take those and scatter them into the posts in this thread to stop yourself imploding.
A momentus event indeed (Score:3)
Light-years of expectation? (Score:2)
not only lived up to the expectations of fans, but exceeded them by a good light-year.
Since when has expectation been measured in units of distance? Clearly the author meant "space-percent."
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After rewatching the series a few times, I would say yes, definitely.
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Does he even deserve to be called a Star Trek captain?
Well he's more of a Star Trek captain than COMMANDER Sisko.
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and at the end he wasn't a captain either he changed into a weird energy being
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Now that's what I call equal opportunity emplyer....
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Can I point out that Enterprise occurred before the point in time when the timeline changed in the Abrams film, and never interacted with events from the other series outside of a self-contained Mirror Universe story, IIRC.
It's the only one of the series that could possibly exist in the new timeline.
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Good point but they did that whole big mess around with the 'Temporal Cold War' which reset a stack of stuff from before the beginning of S4 however those events still seemed referenced so the integrity of that timeline was a bit suspect too in relation to the primary timeline used in the original. There was a flashfoward in the last ep with Richer and Troy from TNG so that at least links it to a similar timeline.
Re:Archer (Score:5, Funny)
The trouble with Janeway was that the writers seemed to think she should fill the role of the series' primary antagonist. Also, she was a bit of a micro-manager, essentially the Jimmy Carter of starship captains.
Oh My! (Score:5, Insightful)
They forgot Captain Sulu!
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They forgot a bunch of captains. Off the top of my head, just from TNG:
Captain Montgomery Scott ("Relics", probably only captain by rank)
Captain Jellico (I think that's the name; he took over the Enterprise in one episode, was an asshole, and the crew hated him)
two briefly-seen captains who Picard calls "Starfleet's finest" in "Conspiracy"
the female captain of the Enterprise-C in "Yesterday's Enterprise"
the captain of the USS Yamato
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Pike wasn't in TNG that I recall. I was just listing the ones I remembered from TNG, and I'm sure I missed a few, such as the captain of the supply ship that experienced rapid aging after visiting a research station doing genetic engineering which caused an epidemic which Dr. Pulaski had to solve (and somehow, this genetic engineering of children was perfectly OK even though other episodes, namely in DS9, said that genetic engineering was strictly forbidden). There was also the captain of the USS Hood th
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They forgot a bunch of captains. Off the top of my head, just from TNG:
Captain Montgomery Scott ("Relics", probably only captain by rank)
Captain Jellico (I think that's the name; he took over the Enterprise in one episode, was an asshole, and the crew hated him)
two briefly-seen captains who Picard calls "Starfleet's finest" in "Conspiracy"
the female captain of the Enterprise-C in "Yesterday's Enterprise"
the captain of the USS Yamato
Captain Pike is another. He didn't come across as an arrogant asshole from what I can recall, except when he was mentally fighting off the Buttheads of Talos IV.
And how about Captain April? Then again, his only on screen appearance was when he was a retired old fart. And I can't recall whether or not he assumed command when the Enterprise was having whatever crisis it was involved in during that episode.
Captain Spock? Arrogance and assholishness would be totally un-Vulcan.
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The trouble with Janeway was everything, from the sound of her voice, to how she was written, passing through her acting. She was the worse character of all star trek. (Yes including wesley crusher who save the enterprise 50 times in season 1 of TNG)
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Which was fine because he almost destroyed it with nanites, lost his mom in a warp bubble, got himself killed for chasing a ball, blew up a friend and cadet in starfleet, got his ass chewed off by a shape shifting baby sitter. The kid was a one stop disaster area.
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I don't get the "primary antagonist" part. As for "micromanager", isn't that true of all five? If they say, "Huh, I need to spend some time actually running the ship, I'll delegate this to Ensign Reshirt" then the series lead actor has almost no screen time for that episode, and the economics of TV doesn't allow for that.
Re:Archer (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, can you name any other female leader roles that didn't seem arrogant to you? Excluding eye-candy actresses?
Re:Archer (Score:5, Insightful)
Can you name a StarTrek captain that didn't seem arrogant to you? I'm pretty sure that's a job requirement. Providing episodes with story-lines by working against the interests of her crew, however, is not a job requirement, and it's curious they cast her in that role. It makes a situation where we're rooting against her instead of for her.
I suppose she was meant to contrast with Sisko, who was willing to break pretty much any rule for the benefit of his crew or society in general. In one episode he collaborates with Garak, who eventually assassinates a member of the Romulan high council to bring them into the war. In the end of the episode he concludes that he'd do it again. Janeway, on the other hand, have never met a rule she didn't like. At one point she happily complies with the rules of an alien society and foregoes an opportunity to cut 50 years off of their journey! The conclusion you can draw is that following rules is only for people who hate themselves and hate everyone else.
Re:Archer (Score:4, Interesting)
Janeway's rule following didn't bother me. It seems to be the natural character of a woman in that sort of position of power, at least in my experience. Picard had a stick up his ass the first couple of seasons but that seems somewhat fitting for a his position too. However, he had mellowed out quite a bit by the end of TNG and was much more charismatic to me by then. Now Riker...i would hate to serve under his ass. Yeah, he was a cool, laid-back, easy-going fella most of the time but when things got tense and everyone was under pressure, he would angrily bark orders at people like they were dumbasses. Sisko was always my favorite. His temperament always seemed appropriate for whatever situation he was in (except when dealing with Picard in the pilot episode). He was smart but not cerebral. He was thoughtful and considerate but in a manly way. He is the only captain that never did or acted in a way that seemed ridiculous to me. Kirk is cool. All there is to it...except for a scene in Star Trek The Motion Picture. It was early in the movie. He told some young ensign to get out of the way like she was incompetent and took over the beam-in controls. The person being beamed-in died. He got this look on his face like "oh. i fscked up. did anybody see?" LOL other than that one scene, he was always cool-headed and wise enough to sit back, trust his people, and let them do their jobs. Archer was a likable guy but there were some instances where he suffered from Janeway-rule-following and angry temper-tantrums that just didn't seem in-line with his character and too forced. They're all great actors. The problems i have with any of them i believe stem from the writing/directing of those particular scenes...except with Riker. I think Jonathan Frakes over-did it on his own sometimes. Then again, all real characters will have their own unique quirks and flaws.
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. Kirk is cool. All there is to it...
I always liked Kirk. Basically in every first alien contact situation he either got into a fist fight, killed one or more, or fucked one of the (green/blue/shape shifted/whatever) women.
except for a scene in Star Trek The Motion Picture. It was early in the movie. He told some young ensign to get out of the way like she was incompetent and took over the beam-in controls. The person being beamed-in died. He got this look on his face like "oh. i fscked up. did anybody see?" LOL other than that one scene, he was always cool-headed and wise enough to sit back, trust his people, and let them do their jobs..
It's been a while since I saw that, but I thought he did it so the transporter operator didn't have to be the one to kill them. I believe the transporter operator even thanked him for it.
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Sisko all the way. Plus he got the best stern-telling-off (of Worf, no less) bit out of all of Star Trek:
"As your captain, it is my duty to inform you that you made the wrong choice. I don't think Starfleet will file any formal charges -- even a secret court-martial would run the risk of revealing too much about their intelligence operations. But this will go in to your service record... and to be completely honest, you probably won't be offered a command on your own after this."
"I understand."
"I have also
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Really, that's a better telling off than this one?
Picard: "The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based! And if you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don't deserve to wear that uniform! I'm going to make this simple for you, Mr. Crusher: Either you come forward and tell Admiral Brand what really took place, or I will."
W
Re:Archer (Score:4, Funny)
I suppose she was meant to contrast with Sisko, who was willing to break pretty much any rule for the benefit of his crew or society in general. In one episode he collaborates with Garak, who eventually assassinates a member of the Romulan high council to bring them into the war. In the end of the episode he concludes that he'd do it again.
Sisko networks then?
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"In the Pale Moonlight" was a great episode.
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Can you name a StarTrek captain that didn't seem arrogant to you?
Yes, and I can even think of one who was a female: the captain of the USS Enterprise-C. She was only in the one episode (TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise"), and got killed in some accident before they could send the ship back through the rift to the past, but she seemed like she would have been an interesting character to watch more of. She didn't have that horribly annoying voice that Janeway did, proving a female starship captain doesn't need
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Didn't the series end with Janeway breaking all the rules, committing multiple acts of insubordination, to get her crew home through the Borg nexus more than 10 years early so Tuvok wouldn't be a vegetable, 7 of 9 wouldn't die, and Chakotay wouldn't end up a broken husk of a man?
Maybe that was the whole point of her character, the evolution from one who blindly followed rules to someone who chose to make her own rules. That and someone who put the needs of those she cared about and for above stroking her ow
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I hope so! I haven't seen the end yet, I'm on season 5.
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Picard was a dweeb & well past his due date start of season 1 lol! (only time I got a sense of real authority from him was when he was Locutus, eh).
Now Worf - he could have made a fine captain I tell ya!
Captain Pike (Score:4, Informative)
For the young uns ....
There was another Captain in the Star Trek series - Captain Pike - played by Jeffrey Hunter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Pike_(Star_Trek) [wikipedia.org]
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According to my wife, Avery Brooks played two characters on DS9. The first few seasons it was "Commander Cisco". Then Brooks shaved his head, grew a goatee, and played "Captain Hawk".
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Troi was rarely arrogant, although sometimes somewhat preachy - I like that in a psychologist. She was, especially in the later seasons, among the calmer, most professionally behaved characters.
Beverly Crusher was, for my money, the sexiest woman on TV due to her BRAINS - she kept her head cool in many instances when everyone else was going apeshit. She became my hero when she willed her hallucinations away in "Night Terrors" - that appeal to reason is one of the core values of humanistic Star Trek.
Does the
Re:Archer (Score:5, Funny)
Shup up Wesley. Oedipus stories belong to reddit.
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Troi---the officer on the bridge whose job it was to make sure the other officers and crew were thinking right.
The Soviets had those too, but they called them a zampolit, not councilor.
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Especially the eye candy actresses.
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Oh, hey, he criticised a woman, he must be sexist! Except that a big part of what made Janeway so irritating was that lots of other science fiction shows manage to portray female leaders who actually worked as characters. The two that immediately come to mind are Susan Ivanova from Babylon 5 and Samantha Carter from Stargate SG-1. I'd be tempted to add Elisabeth Lockley from Babylon 5, but she was only in the fifth season and suffered from the fact that the backdrop was the fifth season of Babylon 5, whi
Re:Archer (Score:5, Insightful)
Neelix is the Jar Jar Binks of Star Trek.
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Now where's that "+1 so true" mod when you need it?
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but I tried going back to S1 about a year ago & nearly lost an eye! :)
That's true for all (newer) Trek series, but on the other hand it's a sign of how much the characters (and actors) grow over the years. Compare first season Worf to DS9-Worf. That whole Klingon backstory gave him charackter depth. S1 now looks like pushing cardboard-cutouts around on the stage.
Even worse with Voyager. You might think, each character was limited to one character trait only! Daredevil Tom Paris, Mystic-indian Chakotay, funny Neelix, stubborn B'elana and "Captain I sense something"-Kes. Oh, an
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And Jar Jar is the Snirkles of Star Wars and the circle is complete.
Re:Archer (Score:5, Funny)
Hmmm . . . not quite right . . .
I can't watch voyager because of her. The arrogance in her voice grates on me enough to outweigh watching 36 of D.
. . . that's better . . .
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I SWEAR that the original concept name was 6 of 9, but was changed for obvious reasons :).
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I can still here her say "Toovaakk" Ick.
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I remember back in the Fido net when everyone thought "get the cheese to sickbay" was the coolest movie quote ever....
IMHO, her best scene was beeing in the tub with Q... not because of her in the tub, but rather the sheer absurdity and that she was quite calm considering that an omnipotent guy just popped up in her bathtub :-)
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that was a great game
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Any news of another series on any horizon...?
Personally, I hope not. IMO, Star Trek went down the tubes after Gene Roddenberry died, and even before then, Berman and Braga were screwing it up. The JJ Abrams reboot wasn't all that great IMO either (though I'll admit the bridge design was pretty cool).
I just don't have any faith that anyone would be able to make a new Star Trek series that measured up to TOS or TNG.
Actually, I do have one idea: put it all in the hands of the guys doing Star Trek: Phase II;
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Also, it's 'retro' tech, which was just like TOS/TNG tech, except in slightly older, antiquated looking wrappers, was just too hard to swallow.
That's why I'd never shoot a Science Fiction Prequel! How do you design techno-props so that it looks older than the technology forecasts from 30 years ago, but still like a "modern" vison of the future?
There is this german SF-series http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raumpatrouille_%E2%80%93_Die_phantastischen_Abenteuer_des_Raumschiffes_Orion [wikipedia.org] everyone has very fond memories of and would love to see a remake with more than 7 episodes (the pulp novel series had over 100 books iirc.)
But then again - everyone remebe
Re:Patrick Stewart's refusal to pose (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe because he'll only pose with other actors? *ducks*
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He cashed in writing pulp horror for adolescents.
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It's fiction. Whether they count only matters in our imagination.