Lego Accused of Racism With Star Wars Set 514
Ch_Omega writes "According to this article over at The Telegraph, Lego has been accused of racism by the Turkish community in Austria over a Star Wars model that supposedly resembles one of Istanbul's most revered mosques. The anger was provoked by 'Jabba's Palace,' a model of the home of Jabba the Hutt from Lego's Star Wars product range based on the blockbusting series of science fiction films. 'The terrorist Jabba the Hutt likes to smoke a hookah and have his victims killed,' said the statement posted on the organization's website. 'It is clear that the ugly figure of Jabba and the whole scene smacks of racial prejudice and vulgar insinuations against Asians and Orientals as people with deceitful and criminal personalities.'"
here we go (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:here we go (Score:5, Funny)
I am altering the world. Pray I don't alter it further.
Re:here we go (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:here we go (Score:5, Funny)
Re:here we go (Score:5, Insightful)
Hokey religions and old superstitions don't compare to a good blaster at your side.
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Re:here we go (Score:5, Funny)
Not if I fire first.
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Re:here we go (Score:4, Funny)
Re:here we go (Score:4, Funny)
I find your lack of Star Wars savvy disturbing.
Re:here we go (Score:4, Funny)
Re:here we go (Score:5, Insightful)
Really? Because this seems to have an awful lot more to do with race (and stereotypes thereof) than religion. Heck, the "mosque" in question has been a museum for almost 70 years! (And in the long past if was Christian rather than Islamic.) It has far more meaning at this point as an iconic and history bit of architecture that represents the region.
I know hating on religion is all the rage these day, but racial stereotyping and sensitivity (like this article and discussion are about) have basically nothing to do with it. You'll find plenty of overly sensitive or overly insensitive atheists. Many westerns that get upset about this kind of thing are anti-religion and a lot of hate groups are agnostic. So I quite fail to see where religion plays into this at all.
Re:here we go (Score:5, Informative)
I want to agree with you here, but
I know hating on religion is all the rage these day, but racial stereotyping and sensitivity (like this article and discussion are about) have basically nothing to do with it.
does kind of conflict with
The Turkish Cultural Community of Austria released a statement calling for Lego to apologise for affronting religious and cultural feelings.
It looks like religion and stereotyping have everything to do with it. At least in their eyes. And let's be honest, most of the hate groups and violence we read about are perpetrated under religious excuse. Not a lot of militant atheists out there wiping out neighboring tribes for having religion, or blowing themselves up on public transportation, RPG'ing the kafir embassy, genital mutilation, firebombing health facilities, shooting doctors, or getting on TV to scream "GOD HATES FAGS".
I'm happy to give people the benefit of the doubt. Particularly in more civilized nations where the religious are less likely to kill people. But let's not go full-on hallucinatory.
Re:here we go (Score:4, Insightful)
This is not to say either of them were motivated by religion, but they most definitely tamed and harnessed the power of religious institutions and used it to suppress internal opposition.
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Which is exactly what Putin is doing, btw.
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Adolf Hitler was raised by a Catholic father and a devout Catholic mother; he ceased to participate in the sacraments after childhood and supported the Deutsche Christen church which rejected the Hebrew origins of the Gospel.[1] In his book Mein Kampf and in public speeches he often made statements that affirmed a belief in
Opps (Score:3)
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You might have missed the fact that half of Turkey is in Asia (the other half in Europe).
I find your notion of a "half" rather curious [wikimedia.org].
Re:here we go (Score:5, Informative)
In Turkey, this has always been more or less flexible, as it is in many branches of Islam.
It comes from two theological roots: The first that portraying the face of a prophet (including Jesus, Moses, etc.) is full of opportunities for blasphemy, the second that creating realistic images of living things usurps Allah's role as creator. In many ways, these reflect the Judaic prohibition in the Ten Commandments against creating carved images. This is one reason why Islamic architecture is full of those amazing geometric designs.
In Turkish art and architecture, this has been fairly relaxed, especially in Istanbul. Typically, images of a prophet simply cover his (I'm fairly sure that they're all male) face with a veil or show him from behind. Mosques in Istanbul are full of images of flowers and sultans often commissioned portraits of themselves, books with figurative art in illuminated manuscripts, and so on. Topkapi Palace is full of this kind of art.
I've been in Hagia Sophia several times and can't see the resemblance myself, beyond the fact that it's a domed building with a squared front.
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Not to mention that Hagia Sophia is originally a orthodox basilica.. and so a orthodox design..
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Thailand and Japan. They're the only non-European countries that spring to mind that haven't been colonized by Europeans. I could be wrong.
Also Afghanistan. The Macedonians, British, Russians, and Americans have all tried, but so far none have succeeded.
Re:here we go (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:here we go (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:here we go (Score:4, Informative)
Re:here we go (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:here we go (Score:4, Informative)
The operation, supported by the Shah, was successful, and Mosaddegh was arrested on 19 August 1953. The coup was the first time the US had openly overthrown an elected, civilian government of another sovereign state.
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There are lots of problems in that list, but... Cuba? Really?
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I can't speak for the rest of those countries, but Cuba was most definitely colonized by the Spanish.
In fact, since the US injected the Platt Amendment [wikipedia.org] into the Cuban constitution, and maintains Guantanamo there against the will of the Cubans ... you could argue they're still colonized.
Re:here we go (Score:5, Interesting)
"Never colonized" is actually a lot harder to figure out then you'd think. The only actual clear-cut case is Thailand/Siam.
Liberia technically counts, but it was a) an outpost of thoroughly Westernized African-Americans, and b) a de facto protectorate of the United States. Afghanistan was de facto a condominium between the Czar and the Brits, which was allowed technical autonomy to keep those two countries from fighting each-other. Within 5 years of figuring out that he no longer had to worry about the Romanovs their Amir decided that he was now prestigious enough to be a full-King, but as long as those Russian troops were on his northern frontier he was very careful to never say or do anything to offend them. Persia and China kept technical independence, but were cut up into competing spheres of influence. The only other countries to successfully fight off all attempts at Western colonization were the Japanese and Ethiopians, but the Japanese were basically colonized after WW2 and the Ethiopians were actually colonized during the War.
Depending on whether Turks count as European the Turks were a) never colonized by Euros/Westerners or b) are by definition colonized by themselves. The Saudis always maintained significant autonomy from the Sultan in Istanbul.
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Depending on whether Turks count as European the Turks were a) never colonized by Euros/Westerners or b) are by definition colonized by themselves. The Saudis always maintained significant autonomy from the Sultan in Istanbul.
"Turks" as a people maybe not (not sure if colonization can apply to people rather than territory), but IIRC the Romans colonized a large chunk of Turkey.
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When the Romans/Byzantines owned it it was called Anatolia or Asia Minor. This is because the Turkish people were Steppe nomads similar to the Mongols when the Romans/Byzantines owned it. They only moved into Anatolia after beating multiple Emperors on the battle-field.
The region actually had large Greek and Armenian populations up until WW1. During the war either a) the Turkish Sultan used genocide to replace unreliable Christian Armenians with reliable Islamic Kurds, or b) the fortunes of war killed almos
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If you go back beyond the 1770's, yes, it kind of is :)
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However it was divvied up into spheres of influence by the British and Russians.
In terms of never colonized you basically got Thailand/Siam, a half-dozen border-line cases where (for various reasons) the Westerners/ Europeans didn't bother officially conquering the country. Persia is one of those, and it was actually a lot more colonized then most of the others. Ethiopia, Afghanistan, the Saudis, Liberia, and the Chinese were all under much less Western influence during the Colonial period then Persia. The
Re:here we go (Score:5, Insightful)
Is there anything left in the world that the big bad white man hasn't destroyed through 'racism'?
...
Porn?
Re:here we go (Score:5, Funny)
Nope....
http://www.theonion.com/video/use-of-nword-may-end-porn-stars-career,14174/
The solution is in your comment (Score:5, Insightful)
The only bad guys you can safely portray in movies are white guys. So what if Jabba's Palace borrows some architectural, decorational and floral inspirations from the Persians. Having a villain with taste Persian trappings doesn't make any Persian a villain any more than owning a Walther PPK makes you a hero.
Perhaps most villains are white, but not all villians are white. And given that Vader and Palpatine where both very white, and Lando, Chewie, Yoda and R2 weren't, if anything I think it's the corn fed Nebraskans that should be offended.
Re:The solution is in your comment (Score:5, Informative)
Also they're complaining about... (Score:5, Insightful)
a LEGO Jabba the Hutt as insulting asians and orientals and completely ignoring Jar Jar Binks, who is at least a *RECENT* example of racial stereotyping in a Star Wars theme. I mean shit the Lego Jabba has been around for over 10 years now (maybe nearing 15), and I imagine even Turkey, nevermind Austria, has had access to the original 3 Star Wars films for at least 20 years.
Obviously much like the fundie Christians this guy is just racism-mongering, but still.
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Stop that! you're being honest again!
Re:here we go (Score:5, Funny)
Is there anything left in the world that the big bad white man hasn't destroyed through 'racism'?
Well, I guess that'll put the skids on the Armenian Genocide play set...
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't racism - this is ignorance... (Score:4, Insightful)
...and culture clash. Also, possibly trolling.
The original text at www.turkischegemeinde.at [turkischegemeinde.at] also mentions that:
Erschreckend ist auch die rot-schwarze Teufels-Fratze auf der Schachtel rechts oben, die zumindest ein augenfÃlliges Signal ist, dass das Spiel nicht unter dem Christbaum am Weihnachtsabend - Auch Türken feiern Weihnachten - liegen sollte.
Translation:
Also frightening is a grotesque red-and-black devil's face in the right corner of the box, which is at least an obvious hint that the toy is not something one should lay down under the (Christmas) tree on Christmas Eve - Turks celebrate Christmas too.
The "red-black devil's face" is a drawing of - you guessed it - Dart Maul.
Now to me that indicates that the article was written by someone who hasn't actually seen (at least) Episode I, or quite possibly hadn't had ANY contact with the Star Wars franchise until now.
And yes, however unbelievable that may seem to us - there are people out there who've managed to live through the last couple of decades without actually watching or having any interest in Star Wars.
Or science fiction.
Or movies.
Re:This isn't racism - this is ignorance... (Score:4, Insightful)
I wish I could go back and un-see Ep 1-3.
Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
This objection is silly because Jabba's Palace and the Hagia Sophia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia [wikipedia.org] ) don't look much alike at all, other than having a dome, in which case they'd better prepare for a lot more outrage when they start to see other photos of the outside world...
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
well.. nobody better tell 'em history of hagia sofia either...
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No kidding, they'll be rigging it for demolition by sundown
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
well.. nobody better tell 'em history of hagia sofia either...
You mean that hagia sofia is actually based on Jabba's palace and not the other way around? The movies clearly say at the beginning: "A long time ago...".
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They better watch out, Apple has a patent on rounded walls. You can't use them anymore.
Actually Naboo Was Based on Hagia Sophia (Score:5, Informative)
Also
Re:Actually Naboo Was Based on Hagia Sophia (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Actually Naboo Was Based on Hagia Sophia (Score:5, Insightful)
Yea because Muslims NEVER form terrorist groups, blow up innocent people or launder money.
It NEVER HAPPENED.
Are you kidding?
Right so that's why whenever Americans appear in a very popular Vietnamese movie the Americans murder and rape everyone? Because it's not like the My Lai Massacre [wikipedia.org] never happened.
All I meant was there are more blatant "all Muslims are bad" productions in American culture than Jabba's Sail Barge. I'm not saying Muslim based terrorism never happened. I'm not saying all Muslims are good. I'm not saying none of them launder money. I'm saying that the most prominent representations of them in movies and TV happen to be solely bad guys. But you can go ahead and list off all those Muslim turban wearing hero movies that Hollywood puts out every year. That'll show me. Hell, name one Hollywood male lead actor who's Muslim.
Funny how nobody remembers The Mummy.... (Score:3, Informative)
in regards to Muslim 'good guys' (which I did find kind of funny since they're members of an order protecting against a 'pre-Muslim threat' (IE curse of an Egyptian God.)
But anyhow good guys concerned with protecting the world from an evil their forebears mistakenly wrought.
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople.
I didn't learn this until I had a date in Constantinople and she was waiting in Istanbul.
It's all Lego's fault. (Score:3)
Re:It's all Lego's fault. (Score:5, Insightful)
No It Doesn't (Score:3)
'It is clear that the ugly figure of Jabba and the whole scene smacks of racial prejudice and vulgar insinuations against Asians and Orientals as people with deceitful and criminal personalities.
I have an Asian girl friend and she can't find anything offensive about this lego set. She showed it to her parents and they didn't see any issue with it and even her grandparents didn't see the issue. So as for it containing racial and prejudice against Asians, well not so much. Just because some people are to sensitive to everyday life doesn't make something offensive, it just makes them to sensitive to live the real world. Clearly someone or some small group got over worked up for no reason ( Like everyone over there does ) and hence we have a racist lego set.
Re:No It Doesn't (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No It Doesn't (Score:5, Funny)
I'm not sure anyone hypothetically running a toy company should issue a public statement telling people to "grow up".
Re:No It Doesn't (Score:5, Informative)
Too bad Lego responded to this nonsense and even offered an apology
Responding is not bad; you said yourself that the company would have responded if you were in charge. And there was no apology either, the reply was "We regret that the product has caused the members of the Turkish cultural community to come to a wrong interpretation. " That's not an apology. That's saying these people are wrong.
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I like those apologies that boil down to "I'm sorry you're a stupid boogerhead." I'm glad Lego got to do one of those.
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If enough people find offense in the apology, and let LEGO know, then it will become clear that simply apologizing for some imagined slight or offense is itself offensive.
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'It is clear that the ugly figure of Jabba and the whole scene smacks of racial prejudice and vulgar insinuations against Asians and Orientals as people with deceitful and criminal personalities.
I have an Asian girl friend and she can't find anything offensive about this lego set. She showed it to her parents and they didn't see any issue with it and even her grandparents didn't see the issue. So as for it containing racial and prejudice against Asians, well not so much. Just because some people are to sensitive to everyday life doesn't make something offensive, it just makes them to sensitive to live the real world. Clearly someone or some small group got over worked up for no reason ( Like everyone over there does ) and hence we have a racist lego set.
Well, I was with you right up until that comment. Boo, fail.
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It follows, then.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Blame Lucas, not Lego (Score:4, Insightful)
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I think that those racial stereotypes are only obvious when one is actively trying to look for them. Or.... you could just sit back and enjoy the story. Because you know, it's actually quite entertaining when you aren't trying to overanalyze it to pieces.
Re:Blame Lucas, not Lego (Score:5, Insightful)
Enjoy thte story??? Are we talking about the same movie?.
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That's not the same as saying they aren't there.
Let's agree to disagree on that!
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It's supposed to be some sort of black stereotype from decades past. The actor was completely unaware of it until Spike Lee brought it up. Lucas may have been oblivious too.
The Jewish thing is just silly. So now every mindlessly greedy character is supposed to be something for the anti-defamation league to get upset about? Really. It's no longer an insult against a particular group when it's not that group being portrayed.
Some people just need a healthy dose of perspective.
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Well it is a case, the stereotype was used to portrait them in a negative light.
Trade Federation were the Bad guys.
Jar-Jar was a clumsy and didn't really know what was going on
The flying dude, was just all about greed and money.
It the Trade Federation had a counter group that was also the good guys,
If Jar-Jar was more useful
If the Flying dude actually gave a crap about people
Then they would be less obvious.
What I liked about Ep.4,5,6 Even the ugly aliens were good guys, or bad guys. As were the humans. Ad
So many things wrong here... (Score:5, Informative)
First, Lego didn't design Jabba's Palace. I'm pretty sure that was under LucasArts' realm.
Second, Jabba's Palace is modeled like all the other homes on Tatooine. Except his is bigger. It's desert design influencing desert design.
Third, Jabba's not the only one smoking from a hookah like device in the movie.
Fourth, omg stop being the dumb.
Three words for our foreign "friend"... (Score:2)
Lighten up, Francis
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I'm mad too (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm still mad at the makers of Silence of the Lambs for portraying Hannibal Lecter as a Caucasian male. I am a Caucasian male and it's clear that the whole movie the smacks of racial prejudice and vulgar insinuations against Caucasians as people with deceitful and criminal personalities. Movies should stop having bad guys because it always paints some race or culture as having deceitful and criminal personalities and that upsets me.
Re:I'm mad too (Score:4, Funny)
It puts its stereotypes in the basket!
Re:I'm mad too (Score:5, Informative)
Allah Akbar, Han Solo? (Score:5, Insightful)
And here I was thinking that Jabba was a caricature of American politicians - fat, stupid, lazy, ready to kill on a whim, and unable to speak anything but nonsensical gibberish.
Also in the news.... (Score:5, Funny)
Ridiculous (Score:5, Informative)
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Victimhood is power - go get some (Score:5, Informative)
Austria's Turkish community (Score:3)
When they say "Austria's Turkish community" they really mean a small vocal minority thereof. I bet most people in the Austrian Turkish community couldn't care less.
Re:Austria's Turkish community (Score:5, Insightful)
I bet most people in the Austrian Turkish community are embarrassed as fuck to be associated with the specific whinging ass-rags..
FTFY. I hope.
Re:Austria's Turkish community (Score:4, Insightful)
The Viennese, in particular, are never going to let the Turks forget it. Take a walk through the city sometime and check out the newspaper vendors on the street corners. It's nobody's idea of a great career move, and the worst of it is that they have to wear these wretched demeaning monkey suits. And notice, they're all Turks. It's not an overstatement to say that they live in a state of public humiliation. It's not subtle. It's almost the first thing you notice as a tourist.
Never mind the right and wrong of it. Some of these people - the ones who aren't completely subjugated - are bound to kick up a fuss once in a while, and not always in a rational, measured way. I expect that's what's happening here with the protest against Lego.
That's not a Lego Haggia Sophia (Score:4, Interesting)
This is a Lego Haggia Sophia:
http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=67199 [eurobricks.com]
Wait, WHICH Hagia Sophia are we talking about? (Score:5, Funny)
I'd love it if Lego replied:
"We're not portraying the revered Hagia Sophia mosque of Istanbul (which, btw ISN'T EVEN A MOSQUE since it was secularized in 1931)...no, we're portraying the Hagia Sophia CHURCH, the most holy church in Christendom until it was conquered by 'the religion of peace' in 1453."
What's "whiny bitch" in Byzantine?
If it's racist then it's accurate (Score:3, Insightful)
The Star Wars movies, especially the prequels, are riddled with racist undertones that people were too un-PC to realize the offensiveness of at the time. Like Gene Roddenberry's progressiveness, appreciation for the offensiveness in Star Wars will be a series of gifts that will be opened over time for decades to come.
It could be worse. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Multiculterialim[sic] (Score:5, Insightful)
Sucks the life out of everything.
Wrong, it's politically correctness bullshit that sucks the life out of everything.
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Yeah, the klan meetings just aren't the same anymore. Damn Political correctness!
I know, lynching people and burning crosses is clearly the same as making a LEGO set that kinda sort of (if you squint really hard) looks like the Hagia Sophia (/sarcasm).
Good example of why political correctness has become such a problem, though.
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I believe the word you're looking for is epicanthic fold [wikipedia.org].
But, that forgets the fact that many Russians are Asian, because that's the continent they're on.
Which mostly just shows that these categories aren't always obvious, because ... well, because it's complicated and doesn't match up with our neat little boxes.
Re:Deflection (Score:4, Insightful)
Nice rant, but sadly history completely contradicts it.
For example, the Golden Age of Jews in Europe occurred under Muslim rule in Spain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_the_Iberian_Peninsula [wikipedia.org]
Jews under Christian rule have generally been treated much worse.
It is only recent radicalization that has caused the problems.
Most of the sites that you reference put forth a point of view that is just as intolerant, radical and ultimately destructive as that of the radical Islamists.
The idea that the US should adopt a set of laws that specifically prohibits Sharia Law is ludicrous. The Constitution of the United States of America and it's provisions based on the principles of the Enlightment is the correct approach. If something needs to be reinforced it should be provisions against ANY radical religious based laws, Christian, Muslim, Confucian and so on.