Vizio Wants Next-Generation Smart TVs To Target Ads To Households (reuters.com) 235
Smart TV manufacturer Vizio has formed a partnership with nine media and advertising companies to develop an industry standard that will allow smart TVs to target advertisements to specific households, the companies said this week. From a report: The consortium includes major TV networks like Comcast Corp's NBCUniversal and CBS, as well as advertising technology companies like AT&T's Xandr. Addressable advertising, or targeting viewers on the household level based on their interests, has long been the goal of TV marketers. But TVs lack cookies that internet browsers use to allow ads to follow people around the web. [...] The consortium of companies, dubbed Project OAR, or Open Addressable Ready, hopes to define the technical standards for TV programmers and platforms to deliver addressable advertising on smart TVs, which are WiFi-enabled TVs with apps for services like Netflix Inc and Hulu, by the end of this year, McAfee said. Further reading: In January this year, Bill Baxter, chief technology officer of Vizio, spoke about business of data collection in an interview. He said: It's about post-purchase monetization of the TV. This is a cutthroat industry. It's a 6-percent margin industry, right? I mean, you know it's pretty ruthless. You could say it's self-inflicted, or you could say there's a greater strategy going on here, and there is. The greater strategy is I really don't need to make money off of the TV. I need to cover my cost. And then I need to make money off those TVs. They live in households for 6.9 years -- the average lifetime of a Vizio TV is 6.9 years. You would probably be amazed at the number of people come up to me saying, "I love Vizio TVs, I have one" and it's 11 years old. I'm like, "Dude, that's not even full HD, that's 720p." But they do last a long time and our strategy -- you've seen this with all of our software upgrades including AirPlay 2 and HomeKit -- is that we want to make things backward compatible to those TVs. So we're continuing to invest in those older TVs to bring them up to feature level comparison with the new TVs when there's no hardware limitation that would otherwise prevent that.
Welp... (Score:5, Insightful)
I know what kind of TV I WON'T be considering for my next purchase...
Re:Welp... (Score:5, Informative)
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You can't use internet technology to filter broadcast/cable TV...
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Nobody has cable any more.
Then how do home users receive their Internet? And how do they get the bundle discount on said Internet?
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I get my internet service over cable. There is, however, no cable connected to my television.
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Internet via cable. TV via antenna. No bundling discount but no ad problem.
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On the other hand, most of the world is not the US (and often has better Internet access).
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Soon all TV will do this, better idea is force the TV through a proxy that filters ads...
Why give the television access to your network at all? The manufacturers only support a particular generation for 3-4years at most. For the vast majority of people, that television is going to be in their home significantly longer than that.
Get a Roku, get an Apple TV, get a Fire stick - use that device to feed the shows to the flat screen.
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Then pretty soon the market will cluster around the few devices that do not do this? Sure, some people will stick with say Firestick forever, but many will say "screw this" and swap to Roku. Then if Roku does the targeted ads they'll switch to Apple, etc. The only way the targeted ads work is if the consumers don't give a shit anymore. We may be getting closer to that point but we're not at the 100% sheep level.
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Then pretty soon the market will cluster around the few devices that do not do this? Sure, some people will stick with say Firestick forever, but many will say "screw this" and swap to Roku. Then if Roku does the targeted ads they'll switch to Apple, etc. The only way the targeted ads work is if the consumers don't give a shit anymore.
I'm guessing that either all of your friends are geeks, or you don't get out much. I see zero sign that the majority of people will offer any more than token resistance to this kind of targeted advertising. Facebook lives, Google thrives, and corporations in general rule because most people just accept the status quo.
We may be getting closer to that point but we're not at the 100% sheep level.
No, we're not at 100% sheepness, but we're way north of 90%, and some would say we're well past 99%. In any case, this shit is a done deal, and most people will just suck it up, as they have wi
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If everyone really just accepts the status quo, then streaming television would never have gotten off the ground and the cord cutters would be a very tiny minority.
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If everyone really just accepts the status quo, then streaming television would never have gotten off the ground and the cord cutters would be a very tiny minority.
Not quite the same thing. People didn't shift to streaming because of its technological superiority, they moved to it because it allowed them to watch their desired content on their own timetable, and on mobile devices without making an additional expenditure. DVRs helped bridge the gap, but streaming gave that specific experience which regular cable TV did not...and aside from a monthly fee that costs less than most value meals at McDonald's, there was virtually no tradeoff to be had.
The issues with target
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Right, just like the internet search clustered around companies that don't, and the online shopping market clustered around companies that don't, and ...
Re:Welp... (Score:5, Insightful)
Then you send it back for a refund.
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And a free market requires that both parties in a transaction have the necessary information to make a decision. If that doesn't exist then the market really isn't that free.
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Soon all TV will do this
Fortunately dumb computer monitors are as cheap as TVs and the screens are no worse these days either.
Re: Welp... (Score:2)
Yes, but have you seen any 60-80â computer monitors lately? If you want a big screen you have to buy a TV.
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Or, get a really super small viewing space!
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50 inch monitors are available and sensibly priced.
HD projectors support larger formats than that if you're sat that far away from your screen. My house isn't that large.
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I don't want to hear about it, dear. Here's a kleenex box - keep it in your room. Don't forget to lock the door.
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The hand of capitalism may be invisible, but you can still feel it when it slaps you.
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Well said and well played! I might have gone with "you can still feel it when it probes your anus" - I guess you're just classier than I am...
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I know what kind of TV I WON'T be considering for my next purchase...
You don't have to turn on the "smart" features. They are off by default.
Also, Vizio won't be the only company doing this. Likely, they all will.
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Sounds like all the TVs are up with Vizio already. The LG uses WebOS and that definitely can be used to present ads to viewers. If the TV is not connected to the Internet, (either a wired or wireless connection on the LG), can it present ads to us?
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In setting up the LG, I found a setting to reduce the prospect of seeing duplicate ads.
If you want to keep your privacy, then you don't "set it up". You just use it as a dumb TV.
I use my smart TV as a smart TV, because I don't really care if "they" know what I am watching (mostly documentaries). But it is my choice.
If the TV is not connected to the Internet, (either a wired or wireless connection on the LG), can it present ads to us?
Your cable provider (Comcast, Spectrum, etc.) can feed you ads, but LG can't (unless they cut a deal with the cable company).
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Turn OFF the smart features and get an external box for the TV stuff. That is, treat the TV as a dumb monitor. et a Roku for less than $100 that gives you more choices than most smart TVs will. Or get a Firestick, an AppleTV, a ChomeCast, etc. This stuff is highly affordable now, they're very tiny and can easily be hidden out of sight and are not at all like last generation's large "set top boxes".
The only worry is if the TV refuses to do anything until you configure it to be on your wifi. I doubt it wil
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Bought a Samsung last year. Haven’t seen any ads. Of course I also don’t use any of the built-in apps, so YMMV.
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It wouldn't surprise me if you couldn't activate the TV unless it was allowed to phone home at least once.
And then every so often they'd decide that you 'need' a software upgrade (for 'security', of course) and that the TV won't work until you allow it to upgrade or install new spyware or whatever.
Maybe they'll start making sets that *have* to be connected, either all the time or periodically. The lust to advertise is so great that this kind of thing makes perfect sense to the ad companies.
Hell, they'd impl
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> It wouldn't surprise me if you couldn't activate the
> TV unless it was allowed to phone home at least once.
> And then every so often they'd decide that you 'need' a software > upgrade (for 'security', of course) and that the TV won't work
> until you allow it to upgrade or install new spyware or whatever.
Get an HDHomeRun https://www.silicondust.com/pr... [silicondust.com] Tuner, which feeds OTA TV to your LAN, and display output on your computer monitor. No need to connect to the internet. TV tuner cards http [wikipedia.org]
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I know what kind of TV I WON'T be considering for my next purchase...
You don't have to turn on the "smart" features. They are off by default.
Also, Vizio won't be the only company doing this. Likely, they all will.
Actually, we might pretty much have lost control of privacy. Think about, even if you trust your wifi access point, and all of your neighbors not to happily offer access to your TV that may also have a microphone and a camera, can you also trust those wifi services and such setup by cable modems and all that?
Seriously, if a 3 letter agency wanted the camera on your new fancy TV to be something they could turn on (with a court order of course) could you even tell that it was happening?
I use a method espoused by a white house staffer to prevent my microwave from spying on me. Piece of tape. Works wonders.
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I use a method espoused by a white house staffer to prevent my microwave from spying on me. Piece of tape. Works wonders.
That's assuming you know the location of the camera ... er, cameras. And then there are the microphones - a piece of tape isn't terribly effective for those.
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You should thank Bill Baxter [linkedin.com] for advertising that information.
Everyone should thank him.
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Came here to say the same thing. In fact, pretty sure any future tv purchases I make will either be dumb ones or never ever see a connection to the internet.
Prior Art Exists.... (Score:2)
like, for instance, all commercial TV broadcasting...
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I see another poor bastard has replied on Slashdot using an iPad.
For goodness sakes this needs to be fixed.
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Just realized this myself, and now am having to force iPad to load desktop site every time I log in. Never quite understand why a system that is touted as faster than most laptops is treated as if it were a low-end phone when using some websites. (/., Google app pages, etc. - it’s maddening)
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It was capitalism that allowed for the technological and economic and social advances. Capitalism did not cause poverty - it existed before. Capitalism created more wealth. Yes. Many people got rich (read about the Pareto Distribution) but the poor got wealthier as well.
Which did better - East Germany or West Germany? (both with the same original culture) Which did better - N
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However, there is a push from some candidates for more government regulation of the free market to reign in some of the excesses, abuses, and corruption and to produce revenue to support infrastructure and social programs for those for whom the free market has failed.
There is also a push from some candidates to move some maj
Hmm (Score:2)
On the one hand, I don't mind if they replace existing ads.
On the other hand, they mention Netflix in passing here - so would that mean Netflix playing on this TV would have ads? No thanks!
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they mention Netflix in passing here - so would that mean Netflix playing on this TV would have ads? No thanks!
Netflix already has ads, mostly previews for their original content.
By tracking your viewing habits, they can give you better recommendations.
No, wrong (Score:2)
Netflix already has ads, mostly previews for their original content.
You are thinking of Amazon Prime video, Netflix does not do previews before shows you watch (though it does do previews if you hover over an item, not really the same as an ad).
By tracking your viewing habits, they can give you better recommendations.
Maybe, but the article was specifically about ads...
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I have to laugh, because Youtube very often insists on showing you ads before you can watch a movie preview. But a movie preview is just an advertisement itself. So Youtube insists on showing you ads before you can see other ads!
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Are you sure youtube has ads?
Ad for something for which you have already paid (Score:2)
"Recommended content" is an ad for something for which you have already paid. Many people are more likely to excuse an ad for something for which you have already paid than an ad for something available for an additional fee.
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Amazon's ads are the thin edge of the wedge.
The cable companies did the same shit here, but that was to pad out 22 minutes of content into a 30 minute slot; why pay for showing 3 episodes of a show when you can pay for 2? Then they slid across to actual paid advertisements, because hey, you've already accepted you're paying for TV AND getting ads.
If Amazon don't start at least having an ad supported version of Prime, then I would be very surprised, and I'd expect whatever you're paying now for TV with inter
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Nobody cares what you watch or what platform you like
They may not care what he in particular likes, but they sure care about what 100,000 people in his demographic like. And he's part of the collective, so to speak. So yeah, they care what he likes, just not him specifically.
In other words you're just another data point to be gobbled up. They care enough to collect the data, it's just not personal.
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Netflix does not show those ads while watching shows. It basically promotes itself and shows by showing them higher up on the list and auto-playing previews when you're idle. It experimented in a small subset of the market by showing some ads before the movies start but it was not making people happy so they stopped that. But if it ends up like the crappy CBS streaming service showing ads in the middle of shows then the customers will unsubscribe in droves. People who don't mind ads are already over on Hulu
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They'll lose so many customers when this happens it will be scary. Streaming providers probably understand to some degree that people who cut the cable cord still remember where they put the scissors. Watching TV is not a requirement and people are perfectly capable of deciding to shut it off permanently.
FUCK YOU, Im sure (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: FUCK YOU, Im sure (Score:3, Informative)
That sounds like projection. You must be an Apple customer.
Tight margins, huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a cutthroat industry. It's a 6-percent margin industry, right?
I'll give you 10% extra if you replace that hardware and software with a couple additional DVI and DisplayPort adapters. You could even make it a swap-out-able module.
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DVI could easily be the plug right now....no reason it isn't, except for DRM.
HDMI is a better plug anyway, because it's cheaper and smaller. It's also a lot better self-guiding than DVI. There's a retention mechanism, which unfortunately is rarely available, but it does show up now and then. And it's not like adapters (or cables with one of each) are rare.
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HDMI is a better plug anyway, because it's cheaper and smaller.
In fact, it's so cheap and small that the slightest twist or turn will make the screen all green or purple.
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Well, there's also the problem of audio: DVI wasn't designed to carry audio signals, and the only way to get it to work is to converts from DVI to HDMI while relying on a non-standard configuration that some video card manufactures use for this purpose.
You Can Put Ads on my TV (Score:2)
I automatically don't buy shit advertised to me.
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Think of the poor executives, not only is it getting harder to come up with the money to buy another yacht, but now it is getting expensive to bribe universities to accept their kids who will be the next generation of executives and your leaders.
thanks but no (Score:2)
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All right! It's now a bidding war [slashdot.org]!
This is why.... (Score:4, Interesting)
...my Vizio tv isn't connected to the internet, nor will it ever be, except for firmware upgrades.
My AppleTV isn't trying to monetize me.
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Why would you even do the firmware upgrades?
I've had several Smart TVs because they were the only ones w/ the size/features I wanted, and none of them have ever needed a firmware update.
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Because I hope they change what I consider a design flaw.
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Unfortunately smart TVs have become like everything else that supports updates - they release them with half finished beta software and maybe fix it later.
I bought an LG smart TV, initially the CEC function was barely working. A few months later a firmware update fixed it.
Sometimes they do actually add useful functionality too. Panasonic recently introduced Dolby Vision support via firmware update.
Re: This is why.... (Score:2)
The 'security' is to protect the content from you. Aka: DRM.
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I recently setup a new LG TV for someone and it was pissing me of with the stupid EULA to even turn it on.
Don't you have a four-year-old around who can click 'Agree'? Sorry, LG, my kid can't enter into a contract.
Always look on the bright side of life (Score:2)
Say what you want but there are positives about this:
1) they're being upfront with their intentions (though I still don't trust them)
2) If they can make money after the purchase of the TV then they have less incentive to design it will intentional obsolescence. (my biggest concern of any smart TV)
3) It may lower the price of TV's
4) I'm confident that while most people won't know how to block the ad-tracking, I'll still be able to allow the TV access to Netflix only and nothing else.
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1. So are muggers.
2. And why would you think they wouldn't just double dip with a device that is obsolete in six months and shoving ads in your face?
3. Please, don't make me laugh. Did you notice the big drop in price when Cable TV started showing ads? Yeah, I thought not.
4. It's entirely possible the TV simply won't work if it's not online with Vizio's ad service. I'm probably being paranoid but it wouldn't surprise me.
This is satire, right? (Score:3, Insightful)
Honestly, the more I read these articles the more convinced I become that I'm living in some kind of satire-based, candid-camera type show. I mean this product idea just screams DO NOT BUY ME on so many levels it simply has to be a wind-up because no sane person would honestly suggest it with a straight face.
The idea that could something that combines the reality-dreck that passes for TV these days with targeted advertising (and I'm going to assume all the spying that goes with it)... I mean seriously, in what alternative universe is that an attractive proposition??? And then to go on and suggest that a person who has managed to score an old-fashioned, non-smart TV would want to retroactively obtain such features... the mind boggles.
Nope (Score:2)
People have been posting videos of their tvs made for the Chinese market playing commercials when they start up or even switch inputs.
I want Vizio (Score:5, Insightful)
To go out of business.
About advertisers (Score:5, Insightful)
For anyone who is interested the modern advertising industry is the brain child of one Edward Bernays [wikipedia.org] who deceived women into thinking that smoking was a sign of their freedom.
I highly recommend a documentary called Century of the Self [youtube.com] for anyone who want to see just how we got into the situation we are in now.
For all of the things that a human beings time gets wasted on, advertising has to be the most offensive.
Don't Blame VISO! (Score:2)
Anybody notice the FCC has been talking and working in this direction almost as if they were industry insiders and not regulators...
This is just a case of a CEO letting the cat out of the bag; they are all seriously working on making this happen and have been doing experiments in this area for years now. The FCC in their pocket moving to make this dream come true is on the edge of happening and at least 1 CEO seems to think it's a done deal regardless of what happens with Trump.
Parent's 2 links are highly
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Edward Bernays was born to a Jewish family
A nephew of Sigmund Freud.
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Crazy times those crazy times.
I guess I'm on my last TV (Score:5, Insightful)
If this is the way the industry's going, fuck'em.
Doesn't bother me (Score:2)
I haven't owned a TV in 20+ years.
Large Computer Monitor (Score:2)
And this is why my next LCD TV is going to be a large computer monitor, and not a TV at all.
My nearly 4 year old vi\zio tv had 2 things going (Score:3)
for it.
I) It was cheap at the time and my previous dumb TV had died
2) It was dumb as dirt. HDMI ports with some CEC support.
If this one goes, I'll probably buy a smart tv (since there aren't any choices) and toss a streaming device on it like an android TV box. Netflix, and kodi support are pretty much all I use, with the occasional chromecast from my computer. If the streaming device dies or needs to be replaced, it's usually less than $100.
No smart TV will have any access to any Internet access. If they start putting 4G/5G sim cards in their devices, I'll be removing them as well.
If the current prices aren't sufficient to support Vizio's profit model, they may want to rethink their business.
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They don't cost "a bit more", they cost several times more for a display of equal size. 55" displays go for anywhere from $1,500 up to several thousand dollars. Yes, it's an option, but be upfront about what it's going to cost.
that's why I keep notes (Score:2)
That's why I keep notes: to inform my future purchasing decisions.
From my notes today:
Vizio Settles With FTC, Will Pay $2.2 Million and Delete User Data [slashdot.org] — 6 February 2017
Gotta move a lot of glass to pay a $2 million fine on 6% margins.
No wait—it's only the margins on the televisions that are a thin 6%.
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5 years of advertising income for under 20 cents in fines? A sound (if unethical) bit of business that.
Thats why (Score:2)
Buying physical media with no ads was a good idea.
Not networking a smart TV and using it as a display for no ad streaming services.
More ads is not a good idea.
Already Exists (Score:2)
I've seen situations where two TVs in the same house watching the same cable channel get separate ads... this tech already exists.
I want our military to target Vizio (Score:2)
No "Smart TV" for me until ... (Score:3)
No "Smart TV" for me until I can replace its entire software/firmware load with an open-source alternative.
My family's TV watching (mostly CDs of old movies) is done using a NTSC CRT TV fed with analog video.
So wait (Score:2)
So...now we'll have to run ad blockers on our TVs?
---------------
Farnsworth: It's very simple. The ad gets into your brain just like this liquid gets into this egg. [He holds up an egg and injects it with liquid. The egg explodes, covering him and Leela in yolk.] Although, in reality, it's not liquid, but gamma radiation.
Fry: That's awful. It's like brainwashing.
Leela: Didn't you have ads in the 20th century?
Fry: Well, sure, but not in our dreams. Only on TV and radio. And in magazines and movies and at bal
A dollar and a dollar (Score:2)
Took long enough. When I was working at Intel, they were developing a dedicated set-top SOC (Canmore I recall?). The salespeople were all excited and drooling on the meeting table about "a dollar and a dollar"; money from the chip, and money from a cut of ad revenue. The core software came from Yahoo and it was some of the worst code I've ever seen. Ugly inside, undocumented, very broken, and even more ugly outside.
Like all things Intel, much money was burned, flaky dev kits were sent out, and the project k
Time to.... (Score:2)
It's time to start taking aim at CEOs..... with high powered rifles.....
Any reason you can't use a monitor as a TV? (Score:2)
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Bullshit (Score:2, Informative)
I owned a Vizio 55-inch "Smart" TV. Vizio had already gotten into trouble for collecting user TV activity without properly disclosing that. I quickly realized that the "Smart" features of my Vizio were worse than what I got out of my gen. 1 Chromecast. So I disabled Vizio's "Smart" TV functions.
But the firmware of my Vizio TV was terrible. The TV would turn itself on overnight! I would come into my living room the next morning to see the TV turned on, but the remote would not work. The few buttons on
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Had BluRay players for years while on dial up with no WiFi, never a problem.
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My Sharp BluRay player actually has a setting that allows me to block discs from accessing the network. All I see is a brief pop up that says “disc trying to access network, blocked” or some such, and then it finishes loading. Turning this option on took disc load times down dramatically because they no longer download some crappy new trailer before going to the menu.
Now if only the menu options allowed me to override the built-in ads and skip straight to menu, I’d be happy... why consumer
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Vizio started out by offering a durable product with terrible filtering which could be disabled completely, offering the lowest possible latency on native resolution signals, and with loads of brightness. It's unfortunate what's become of them since. It reminds me of Apex, who made their name by selling a player with very little filtering, and a trivial region-free hack from the remote. They were great for watching Anime.