Huawei's First Television Could Also Be the World's First 5G 8K TV (engadget.com) 196
Huawei is planning to launch an 8K 5G TV as soon as this year, a new report from Nikkei claims. The set would include a 5G modem to allow it to stream remote content directly without the need for a cable box or fixed-line internet connection, and it could even act as a router for other internet-connected devices in your home, the report added.
Do not want (Score:1)
Don't need Chicom government in my house.
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Might have to ground out an antenna to stop this one from getting on the internet, ya know, when 5G actually becomes a thing everywhere.
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Might have to ground out an antenna to stop this one from getting on the internet, ya know, when 5G actually becomes a thing everywhere.
Only if you're using it outdoors.
5G does not penetrate window glass. It needs literal line-of-sight.
Re: Do not want (Score:1, Informative)
Incorrect, depends entirely on the bands. Chinese 5G bands are in the 2-6ghz range with very good ranges/ structure penetration and the fcc has began talks about opening up the same bands in the US for 5G.
Re: Do not want (Score:5, Informative)
You're incorrect here and mixing up several things.
There are two groups of 5G frequency ranges, sub-6Ghz (FR1) and above 24Ghz (FR2).
5G on FR1 is only slightly faster than 4G. It is wide spectrum of FR2 that gives the 5G its headline bandwidth figures. However, because of the high frequencies, it has difficulty penetrating walls and has short range from the basestation.
Re: Do not want (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you trust one with a built in cellular modem?
Re: Do not want (Score:1)
Nice brand recognition shaming there. Are you proud to make sure people spell trademarks correctly? It's so important to do so. Marketing fucks weep when we don't get their trademarks right.
Re: Do not want (Score:2, Informative)
China executes people that critisize the comunist party. In addition, a Chinese law exists that requires businesses and individuals to render any assistance the government asks for and the owners of Huawei are believed to be top leaders of their Spy agency. Any country that would trust them is giving access to their entire communication system to China. The risk is immense.
Two words (and a bonus) (Score:2)
They have less of a reason and history to screw with random people.
Word number 1 : "Industrial espionnage" (mostly regarding the "reason and histroy" part)
Trying to spy on foreign nation has a very strong financial incentive: theft of IP/designs, insight into business plan enabling to undercut them, etc.
China (and Russia, and every other state spying agency which is not the country which you happen to live in) have all strong commercial interest to engage into mass surveillance, because the information can be secretly resold (or in the specific case of China, not so secret
TV (Score:1)
So they've re-invented TV, but with data caps?
I'm still using an antenna.
Re:TV (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't forget the unavoidable surveillance, and ability to insert extra commercials to provide an ongoing revenue stream.
A smart TV that you can't even opt out of the smart features. Just what I've been waiting for /sarcasm.
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Caught how exactly? (Score:5, Interesting)
The idea that Huawei is going to be monitoring US citizens is laughable. They would be caught so fast
Oh really - how?
It has its own 5G connection. You cannot tell what it is sending, and even the fact it is sending out is done with some difficultly and specialized equipment.
Absolutely nothing this TV does will be done over your own network where you could monitor traffic and behavior.
If I were them I'd activate the spy mode maybe a year after installation. Then who would ever look?
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And by "spying on me" they will gain what exactly?
Videos of me bringing coffee while Ms. Dollar Ton watches TV? Me scratching the ears of Dollar Woof? Our discussions on the topic of the color of the kitchen furniture?
Let's face it, all this anti-Huawei garbage is just basic fear of competition.
Remember the late 80s and the neverending BS stories of Japanese dominance over the world? Remember Rising Sun?
Yeah, the same thing.
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You aren't the target. You are the noise to mask the signal - and of course, the source of the funding by buying a new TV; even spy companies need revenue.
Seriously, though. The average civilian isn't interesting. There's very little in the average person's life that can be used for blackmail and the vast majority don't have a job that is of any use to some foreign power. But this is going to be a massive luxury good, and massive luxury goods are bought by the rich so they have that status symbol. And the r
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This is a consumer TV. I buy TVs. Therefore, I am the target. The idea that Huawei is building TVs specifically targeted to certain high value individuals is preposterous.
But this is going to be a massive luxury good, and massive luxury goods are bought by the rich so they have that status symbol. And the rich CAN be blackmailed, because they have connections where most people do not.
If these mysterious "the rich" can be blackmailed to the detriment of your country, then your country has a problem that you
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Yes, an obvious exploit of a bug by a Western intelligence agency is the same thing as a widely disclosed feature of a consumer product.
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You mean like how Huawei blackmailed Jeff Bezos? Oh wait... there is no China link so it's not worth worrying about.
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And by "spying on me" they will gain what exactly?
Videos of me bringing coffee while Ms. Dollar Ton watches TV? Me scratching the ears of Dollar Woof? Our discussions on the topic of the color of the kitchen furniture?
Remember the late 80s and the neverending BS stories of Japanese dominance over the world? Remember Rising Sun?
Yeah, the same thing.
So Lets see Brand of coffee the fact you have a dog and its breed and are about to do Kitchen renovations is just sent to Chinese suppliers they didn't even have to have wait for you to google that, spying at this level is not just valuable for corporate/government espionage.
As for the Japanese, They at least have some honor and respect. but the tech wasn't as good back then
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Visa, the local supermarket, everyone who has access to the Visa database knows about my coffee and about my dog.
What do I care that the Chinese may supposedly and allegedly get this information too?
All the TVs I've seen for sale in the past decade have networking - ethernet, wifi, whatever. This is no different, it is just another way to deliver content. Banning the technology isn't the solution of spying on consumers, lack of legislation to get even with the company that attempts it is.
But ludditism is ve
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"What do I care that the Chinese may supposedly and allegedly get this information too?"
Because you're vastly ill informed about how companies use and sell data to manipulate you, I imagine. And/or you don't care about privacy.
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I am quite well informed about how companies use and sell data, in fact, this is my job.
You'vr had no privacy for many years now, and it is not because of the Huawei's 8K TV.
And this particular product is no watershed in any meaningful way.
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And this particular product is no watershed in any meaningful way.
It only changes who gets the information the question is who do you trust to do less evil with it.
The problem with young people they think their actions which might seem innocent today will be viewed that way forever. however societies views are changing and sometimes very rapidly we also have SJW's (Social Justice Warriors) who are offended by anything and everything. Add to that the misinterpretation or worse false accusations and any thing that can help that narrative to be believed. you should be conc
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"I am quite well informed about how companies use and sell data, in fact, this is my job."
Ah, so now we know you are part of the problem. Does making excuses help you feel better about it?
"You'vr had no privacy for many years now, and it is not because of the Huawei's 8K TV."
This line of thinking is fallacious. You might as well claim it's ok for someone to stab you in the kidney because others are already doing it.
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These almost politicians never thought the comments they made would be harmful
Why should I be sorry that sleazebags are exposed as such? The earlier you expose a sleazebag, the better.
Otherwise they try to sell themselves for more and to do more harm: https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
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What "wisdom" did you show exactly? What exactly is the difference between an unrooted and unfirewalled 1,2,3,4,5G smartphone and this TV, except that the smartphone has several more sensors that can be used to spy on you?
You have one, your wife would have one if you had a wife, your kids would have one each if you had kids.
The things you're already using and used to spy on you 100% more than this PoS. You still lug em around.
Whar "wisdom"?
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Precisely. You as a user have no weapons in this fight.
The problem is lack of legislative protection of privacy and lack of options for the user to force the aggregators to not spy on them, not a TV set sold by any single company.
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So what if they do?
Re: Caught how exactly? (Score:1)
Don't you understand? Some anonymous teenager hiding in his mom's basement just threatened you with the suggestion your wife might be having an affair with a black man. Sure, it's an incredible projection on their part, but don't you feel a little sympathy for someone with such a pathetic life?
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Not at all, it is their choice.
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The idea that Huawei is going to be monitoring US citizens is laughable. They would be caught so fast
Oh really - how?
It has its own 5G connection. You cannot tell what it is sending, and even the fact it is sending out is done with some difficultly and specialized equipment.
Absolutely nothing this TV does will be done over your own network where you could monitor traffic and behavior.
If I were them I'd activate the spy mode maybe a year after installation. Then who would ever look?
You can sample the connection with a gadget made for that purpose, you can examine the data, or if it is encrypted, measure the amount of outgoing data. The 5G connection your TV has does not go directly from your TV via the Huawei factory to Chinese intelligence HQ over a private network in the US owned by Chinese intelligence. The ever so fascinating 8K footage of you sitting in front of your TV sipping diet coke, scratching your balls and then dipping that hand into your bag of chips for another handful,
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Electrical tape does very little to a mic. You can make recordings a bit muffled, but assuming real time gain adjustment, and that a little post-processing is done to the recording, it's pretty much impossible to keep a mic from recording relatively clear dialog short of electrically disconnecting it. Put an inch of sound-deadening phone over the mic, and it will just record the sound that's transmitted through the rest of the TV case.
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While I'd leave Huawei out of this specific point, I think the equations are actually closer to:
Settle = ((FullLawsuit > WorthFightingAmount) && (SettleAmount < (WorthFightingAmount - SettleReputationDamageAmount)))
if ((Company == Guilty) && (PlaintiffEvidence > PlaintiffLikelyToWinThreshold + CompanyDefenseObfuscationBonus) && (SettleAmount < LawsuitLossDamageAmount))
Settle = true
if ((Company == Innocent) && (CompanyManagement < RighteousIndigni
$10-15/mo for data (with an cap?) + TV service fee (Score:2)
$10-15/mo for data (with an cap?) + TV service fees?
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ATSC 3.0 ? (Score:2)
ATSC 3.0 ?
Nope ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Do not want this at all.
First off, I see no point in 8K TV, it's a cool idea but it isn't something I'm going to spend money on for a long time to come.
But, most importantly, I spend a lot of effort to keep network connected shit out of my house and/or not connected to my network.
Sorry, I do not trust *any* consumer electronics company with a network connection -- because they're assholes who will steal your data to make a buck. I simply do not believe that any such product isn't full of shit which gives me no benefit.
If I can't choose to not connect it to the network (it's really only ever going to have a single HDMI input anyway), I won't own it.
Fuck this connected devices shit.
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Not to mention that streaming an 8K movie will probably soak up enough bandwidth that you'll be hitting your data throttle sometime during the opening credits.
Re: Nope ... (Score:1)
You don't know what a luddite is.
but is it spying on me? (Score:5, Insightful)
Does it have a microphone or a camera? Is it going to blackmail me by threatening to email video or sound of me and my wife getting it on in front of the TV?
I don't trust modern technology no more.
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No, that's Russian, American, and Indian hackers.
This is going to be exploited by Asian hackers who have access to buy the exploit.
They're just going to sell the video to porn sites, they're not going to bother trying to extort you.
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Don't worry. You'll hit your data cap before it has a chance to collect anything incriminating.
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You'll hit your data cap before it has a chance to collect anything incriminating.
How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? If your ISP were (wittingly or unwittingly) a partner in surveillance, that data might be exempted from the cap, like how your cellphone provider lets you call 611 without using minutes.
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How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? If your ISP were (wittingly or unwittingly) a partner in surveillance, that data might be exempted from the cap, like how your cellphone provider lets you call 611 without using minutes.
That's hardly a fair comparison. 611 is made to allow you to call your provider for service-related issues, and goes back to landline phones. It allowed non-subscribers an easy way to call and order service, and if they shut you off for non-payment people can't use the excuse of "I would have called to straighten this out, but you shut me off."
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The pernicious direction that technology seems to have gone in the last decade is why I decided last year that I'd had enough of software development.
I no longer had any joy, motivation or enthusiasm for my career. Everything is an online subscription, everything you're not paying for is spying on you. Fuck that, I got out and now have my own business in a completely unrelated industry and am enjoying life once again.
Unfortunately, I still have to make use of modern technology for the purposes of marketing,
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And if it is? Just dance naked in front of the TV grinding your arse cheeks against the top of the frame. They'll stop spying on you quite quickly.
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I don't know about a camera, but I can guarantee it can have a microphone even if it ostensibly doesn't.
It has a speaker, and any speaker can be surreptitiously a microphone.
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does it need to mains power? (Score:2)
Because if I have to plug in one big wire, it's hardly a big deal to connect a second for the network.
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Comcast/etc already logs your DNS queries and traffic. I'm about as (un)comfortable with the US government spying on me as I am with China and Russia doing it.
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It's not like DNS traffic between your cable modem and Google is encrypted. So expect it to be logged, but hopefully not spoofed (yet).
It is possible to encrypt DNS, but most of the focus is around signing the queries, which unfortunately isn't terribly well supported yet.
Who on earth would install a Huawe smart anything? (Score:2, Interesting)
The set would include a 5G modem to allow it to stream remote content directly without the need for a cable box or fixed-line internet connection,
Huh, now why would a TV set from a company known to install backdoors in lots of equipment it sells, possibly want to ship a smart TV laden with cameras and microphones and include an internet connection you have no way to control or monitor...
I don't care if it's 8k or 16k or how many Ks they ship with, no way would I trust equipment from this obvious front for t
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The sad thing is that (some) people do indeed install Alexa everywhere in their home, and if they can get away with it, their office. Backdoors? I'm not convinced that the Toshiba/FireStick TV doesn't sniff around-- it includes Alexa, too. Have a Roku? What stuff can't be cracked like an egg, barf adware, and infect your home these days?
Trust the US Gov when there essentially for tracking purposes, IS NO US Gov (rules)? Do we buy EU GDPR sets because they might be less risky? What's the Chinese Gov gonna do
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I don't care if it's 8k or 16k or how many Ks they ship with, no way would I trust equipment from this obvious front for the Chinese government in my house.
I imagine there'd be a (hopefully small) market if it had just 3 K's, but probably not if it was made in China.
How do you not see the leverage value (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously? What are the Chinese government going to do with any data they glean from you?
That depends very much on who you are and what kind of use you might have.
If for example, some highly connected politician were having some steamy mistress sessions in front of said TV, a few months later they might well get an envelope in the mail with a USB stick containing video, and a sheet explaining what they were to do to keep the video confidential...
In an era when it's truly possible to record video feed from an entire population, it's really easy to cast a wide net and just make use of whatever you find in it, without explicit intent. The TV would presumably send location data along with video of anything "interesting" it could see or hear, which could then be catalogued and analyzed at leisure to cross-correlate with people of interest at any point.
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some highly connected politician were having some steamy mistress sessions in front of said TV,
This would only work if
a) it happens in a country where some hardline "morality" rules the public discourse instead of real issues and
b) the politician is a hypocrite who subscribes to this "morality" in public, while doing the opposite in private.
Why would you want a) in a free country, and why would you make a lying scumbag a highly connected politician?
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some highly connected politician were having some steamy mistress sessions in front of said TV,
This would only work if
a) it happens in a country where some hardline "morality" rules the public discourse instead of real issues and b) the politician is a hypocrite who subscribes to this "morality" in public, while doing the opposite in private.
Why would you want a) in a free country, and why would you make a lying scumbag a highly connected politician?
Going through an election ATM and seven candidates have already been dropped by their party or resigned over videos or comments made on social media.
It doesn't have to be a well known politician just someone who might change the winner based on preferences or damage to the party they are connected too. And in one case a foriegn owned media company did the work and waited until the election to release it. I'd say if the Chinese government had the info like that they would wait till your famous or it's usef
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Fame has nothing to do with a) the society having fake "morals", which only apply in public or b) general political sleazebagginess, which is only unacceptable if one is caught. And it is only these two plus the carefully grown need for outrage that make collection of information profitable.
Get rid of them - you don't need to worry about Chinese TVs.
Sadly, the political process inside of the US likes sleazebags and digging dirt.
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What's an election ATM? Do you walk up to it, stick in a card, punch in your pin, and out pops a candidate? I guess it is no coincidence that Diebold, a major suppliers of ATM cash dispensers, is manufacturer of electronic voting machines.
/. !
Oh, wait, you meant "at the moment". Please keep your text-speak to yourself. Only 1337-speak is allowed on
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What's an election ATM? Do you walk up to it, stick in a card, punch in your pin, and out pops a candidate?
Sort of. It's more of a machine where you walk up and vote, but it only counts if you deposit enough money into the system...
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You forgot c) one added a camera.
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Seriously? What are the Chinese government going to do with any data they glean from you?
That depends very much on who you are and what kind of use you might have.
If for example, some highly connected politician were having some steamy mistress sessions in front of said TV, a few months later they might well get an envelope in the mail with a USB stick containing video, and a sheet explaining what they were to do to keep the video confidential...
In an era when it's truly possible to record video feed from an entire population, it's really easy to cast a wide net and just make use of whatever you find in it, without explicit intent. The TV would presumably send location data along with video of anything "interesting" it could see or hear, which could then be catalogued and analyzed at leisure to cross-correlate with people of interest at any point.
So, Trump wants the ROW to ban Huawei. Fine, let's entertain that notion for a while. However, the question: CIA, NSA, same scenario, quickly arises. Now why should I not ban all US device manufacturers that make similar devices as Huawei does? In the end it is about risk assessment. For one thing most people will not shag in front of their TV. They'll usually do that in the bedroom. Secondly, if you want to get dirt on politicians humping their mistress there are easier and more efficient ways to obtain fo
Wow (Score:3)
The set would include a 5G modem to allow it to stream remote content directly without the need for a cable box or fixed-line internet connection, ...
Talk about a solution in search of a problem. I *guess* it could come in handy on those occasions I want to use my GIANT TV at the poolside, while camping, or on the subway. On... the... other... hand. It'll probably a bit too pricy to be so cavalier with it. From TFA:
Samsung recently released its Q900 8K television, which costs an eye-watering $70,000.
Sony released an 8K TV this year will also set you back $70,000.
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5G doesn't work indoors. Even window glass blocks it. Tree leaves block it.
Ethernet OTOH usually works indoors.
That's why fahrbot-bot is talking about the poolside, camping, or on the subway. Camping, yeah, maybe at the KOA next to the freeway.
Poolside is presumptively outdoors, and they're talking about putting repeaters in the subway.
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You do know that 5G uses a variety of bands from 600 Mhz to 40 Ghz? How else will all those internet of things communicate if you deny them WiFi?
Here's a PDF, or just do a search.
https://www.gsma.com/spectrum/... [gsma.com]
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The benefit isn't to you, it's to the content owners. They can build a new DRM system that only allows streaming over verified 5G connections, thus making it much harder to rip streams.
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The set would include a 5G modem to allow it to stream remote content directly without the need for a cable box or fixed-line internet connection, ...
Talk about a solution in search of a problem. I *guess* it could come in handy on those occasions I want to use my GIANT TV at the poolside, while camping, or on the subway. On... the... other... hand. It'll probably a bit too pricy to be so cavalier with it. From TFA:
Samsung recently released its Q900 8K television, which costs an eye-watering $70,000. Sony released an 8K TV this year will also set you back $70,000.
I still don't even have a 4K TV.
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Are you saying 5G doesn't work in one direction, but works in the other?
Wow. Huawei folks must be really good to reinvent the physics like that.
Voice activated? (Score:5, Funny)
"I'm sorry, sir. There is no record of a Tin Man Square."
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China acknowledges Tian'anmén (Heavenly Peace Gate) and Tian'anmén Square to the south, just not something that may have happened there in second quarter 1989.
Modding (Score:5, Interesting)
Somebody should start making aftermarket PCB replacement boards for popular models of TV's; with open source firmware and hardware, maybe RISC-V would be a good option in a couple of years.Then you might be able to trust (or at least reasonably trust) your TV to not be spying on you.
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Just checking NewEgg, there appear to be no comparable "cheap display panels" to replace large screen TVs, which are now heavily subsidized by how much money they expect to be able to make from collecting the consumer's data and targeting/inserting ads to the consumer.
I would argue that the consumer has no moral obligation to cooperate with this scheme, and has every right to do whatever is necessary to avoid allowing the device to connect to an external network. Over time this approach may cause the subsid
Say it with me, everyone: (Score:2)
8k TV? Why do we even need that in the first place? Is there even any content available for it?
A TV that relies on 5G wireless? Who had that pants-on-head stupid idea? Was it the wireless companies?
You should all feel like your intelligence is being insulted, if they actually think anyone will be so stupid as to buy something like this, especially from Huawei.
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I will admit to wanting an OLED HDR television set.
And those only come in 4k...
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I will admit to wanting an OLED HDR television set.
OLED + HDR = oxymoron
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The Panasonic I want has peak nits of 780. Not quite the 1000 you'd like to see for HDR but considering the contrast with actual blacks I think I'll live...
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It exists because there are a good deal of people who have a lot of disposable income.
5G modem is a dumb idea (Score:2)
Fuck no (Score:2)
I don't even want a "smart" TV, let alone one that comes with it's own network connection.
I just want a dumb panel with some inputs about it. That's it. Doesn't even have to be 4k, I'm old anyway. The more they try to cram this shit down my throat, the more I likely I'll never buy another TV again.
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How is this going to work in the US? (Score:2)
I'm not sure how useful an 8K TV is going to be in the US, where even 4G wireless Internet access is insanely expensive when measured by the Gigabyte. From what we've seen from AT&T and Verizon, 5K isn't going to be much cheaper.
For most customers, you're going to hit your download cap in about a minute the first time you try to stream an 8K movie on your shiny new TV.
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An 8K TV with a 5G modem, that is. Although one could argue that an 8K TV in general won't be all that useful until there is 8K content out there to watch on it.
2 monthly fees instead of one (Score:2)
So instead of paying for an home internet connection, I would need to pay for an home internet connection as well as my TV's internet connection?
Thanks, but no thanks.
Why? (Score:2)
What is the point of an 8k screen in the home unless it's 9 feet wide or 3 feet away from your face?
Necessary? (Score:2)
Is an 8K TV really necessary? HD was a pretty big upgrade over SD content, and while I can certainly tell a difference between 4K and HD(1080P) side by side, it's not something that really effects me enough to care about even that upgrade. I'd imagine that the jump from 4K to 8K would be even less noticeable.
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No, it is pointless as a viewing device for movies or anything else intended to be seen all at once. You don't have enough light sensing elements in your eye to benefit from it. The only sensible use for such tech is displaying a view that is not intended to be seen all at once by one person.
4K actually breaks that boundary, it is pointless for home viewing to go higher unless you want to have a wall with scenery or art on it that will be looked at in parts.
All your Eggs in One Basket (Score:2)
Looks like something that the Big Cable/Internet boys would have thought up.
After all, they certainly want you to have everything in a handy-to-access place for monitoring your usage, invading your privacy, and otherwise monetizing your collective activity and viewing habits.
Isn't this what the U.S. government was all upset about with the Huawei phone connection to China?
Now they want to do this with TV, too? Where's the Government uproar over this?
If I had one of these beasts, it'd be locked away behind my
Well, that's interesting.. (Score:2)
I don't see personally needing this anytime soon. But the concept is intriguing. Imagine buying a streaming TV and just taking it home and it works. Of course you need to be in a 5G world. It could be a way to upset the Cable TV strangle hold. Assuming of course that the 5G network takes you straight to Netflix et al.
Sure sure, there's the cost of 5G. But in order to compete we all know the price has to come down. I've seen writings of terrestrial bound 5G locations could be cheaper than mobile on
Great News!!! (Score:1)
Great News.. Now I can afford a 4K once 8K gets out.
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Or just place an Android tablet on the coffee table.