Have We Hit Peak Podcast? (nytimes.com) 106
There are now upward of 700,000 podcasts, according to the podcast production and hosting service Blubrry, with between 2,000 and 3,000 new shows launching each month. From a report: The frequency with which podcasts start (and then end, or "podfade," as it's coming to be known in the trade) has produced a degree of cultural exhaustion. We're not necessarily sick of listening to interesting programs; but we're definitely tired of hearing from every friend, relative and co-worker who thinks they're just an iPhone recording away from creating the next "Serial." "Anyone can start one and so anyone who thinks they can start one will do it," said Nicholas Quah, who runs an industry newsletter called Hot Pod. "It's like the business of me." "Being a podcast host plays into people's self-importance," said Karen North, a clinical professor of communication at the Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism at the University of Southern California. And it projects that importance to others. Public speaking and consulting gigs now often go to "the person who's the expert and has the podcast," she said.
People use all kinds of metrics to tout the popularity of their shows, whether it's the number of iTunes reviews they get or the total downloads they receive per month. These metrics mean different things and don't necessarily connote success. And as recent social media scandals have shown, popularity can be purchased. But Dr. North said that having a big audience doesn't necessarily matter. "When people interview experts, even if nobody ever listens to the podcast, hosts get the benefit of learning from and networking with the guest," she said. "It's a great stunt." Call him cynical, but Jordan Harbinger, host of "The Jordan Harbinger Show" podcast, thinks there is a "podcast industrial complex." Hosts aren't starting shows "because it's a fun, niche hobby," he said. "They do it to make money or because it will make them an influencer."
People use all kinds of metrics to tout the popularity of their shows, whether it's the number of iTunes reviews they get or the total downloads they receive per month. These metrics mean different things and don't necessarily connote success. And as recent social media scandals have shown, popularity can be purchased. But Dr. North said that having a big audience doesn't necessarily matter. "When people interview experts, even if nobody ever listens to the podcast, hosts get the benefit of learning from and networking with the guest," she said. "It's a great stunt." Call him cynical, but Jordan Harbinger, host of "The Jordan Harbinger Show" podcast, thinks there is a "podcast industrial complex." Hosts aren't starting shows "because it's a fun, niche hobby," he said. "They do it to make money or because it will make them an influencer."
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Wonder if that could apply to audio as well (Score:1)
Learn b roll.
An interesting thought, what if you applied the concept of b-roll to audio-only podcasts - like using som changes in audio to texture the background a little more? It seems like some kind of shifting neutral background noise could make the listener more engaged.
Or maybe the audio b-roll is more direct, being a kind of quick side interaction.
It could be that is too distracting, but it seems like it has some possibility... I don't recall hearing anything like that in podcasting but then if it we
it's not just "podcasts" (Score:1)
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Listen to some radio dramatizations, they sometimes do this and are professionally produced unlike most podcasts.
(I think it's a terrible idea. Background noise is to me as annoying as two people speaking at the same time, but to each their own).
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I proposed exactly this sort of idea as a startup business to my brother.
It would make the world a better place.
Especially if you could find a way to automatically flag sections that are restatements of earlier portions. I don't need to be told the exact same thing three, four, five, six times over.
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I don't need to be told the exact same thing three, four, five, six times over.
Yes you do. That's how persuasion works. You don't think people believed pizzagate the first time they heard it, do you?
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I don't need to be told the exact same thing three, four, five, six times over.
Yes you do. That's how persuasion works. You don't think people believed pizzagate the first time they heard it, do you?
The vast majority didn't believe it even after the 10th time.
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And unless you can keep it interesting, edit. Edit the shit out of it.
Same issue with many youtube videos. I do not care about your personal life. I do not want to hear foxus, focus, focus every 2 minutes. Learn b roll. And edit.
Remove the silence in podcasts. Remove the er and uhm. Remove crud that is not relevant like how you are testing a new recording device. Unless on topic.
And edit.
Good advice! Suspect something similar to "blog fatigue" also occurs for some (they blog for a few days - maybe only once! - then decide that it is too hard/bothersome/boring to continue). I've sampled a few podcasts back in the day that looked promising, and suddenly they were gone. Too bad, for some.
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This. I didn't really enjoy podcasts until I discovered the NPR ones. Instead of 2 hours of a couple of people giggling at their own wit while they meandered on pointlessly to cover about 10 minutes worth of actual content, the NPR podcasts are edited super tight.
The ones I listen to are really short (5-15 mins), easy to listen to, high density. Really nicely produced and really informative.
Have we hit peak_____? (Score:1)
Have we hit peak books?
Have we hit peak tv shows?
Have we hit peak opinion pieces?
Re:Have we hit peak_____? (Score:5, Insightful)
We hit peak literacy in the 19th century. And peak intelligence in the 20th. We've yet to reach peak obesity in the 21st.
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Well, I don't know about peak obesity. When you're fat, you have no peaks. It's all dimples, valleys, folds and chins.
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Well, we haven't reached peekaboo. The little ones never get tired of that one.
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And if we have hit peak podcast, does it matter? There are high-quality podcasts which are valuable contributions to human culture and there are what are effectively video blogs that are not so valuable. It's unfortunate that the good material is so hard to find in the large volume of books/films/TV shows/websites/Slashdot articles/podcasts, but it's not clear there is anything that can or should be done about it.
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post peak podcast (Score:2)
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Yeah I thought the podcast craze was done a long time ago, yet it came roaring back and it really accelerated in to the mainstream a few years ago.
I think the recent surge in popularity is due to easy integration with modern devices. Apple has the podcast app (Which is insanely popular). Smart speakers like Alexa can summon them up just by asking for them by name.
It's really just a better, modern radio for talk and news shows. It's very easy and accessible and there is a lot of good content available.
You can't make money with podcasts (Score:5, Interesting)
I pay nothing for podcasts. I see no advertisements. And I hear few if any advertisements.
As a consumer podcasts are ideal. For producers, it shouldn't even qualify as a business. Podcasters should list themselves as "unemployed" on their tax returns.
Podcasts often have sponsors (Score:4, Informative)
I pay nothing for podcasts. I see no advertisements. And I hear few if any advertisements.
Most of the podcasts I listen to are sponsored, with sponsorship codes to use with the sponsor - so for many podcasts there's a pretty clear revenue model. It may not be a lot, but if you had enough listeners I could see making it work.
I have a friend who just started a podcast and even just starting out, she already has sponsors (because of other work she has done). So that model seems pretty common.
But the great thing about podcasts is the super low bar to producing them. Even if you were making almost no money it would still be very practical to continue making them.
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But the great thing about podcasts is the super low bar to producing them. Even if you were making almost no money it would still be very practical to continue making them.
Little money is required. The same cannot be said about time.
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Some people seem to eek out of a living with ads and merchandise like branded t-shirts and coffee mugs and whatnot.
NPR seems to fund their podcasts with pledge drives as well, but that's a special case.
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"...eek out of a living..."
Did you mean "eke out a living" instead? I've never heard of someone screaming "Eek!" to escape from a living before.
Maybe he was scared of not making a living? Been there - time to both eke and eek!
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I pay nothing for podcasts. I see no advertisements. And I hear few if any advertisements.
As a consumer podcasts are ideal. For producers, it shouldn't even qualify as a business. Podcasters should list themselves as "unemployed" on their tax returns.
That seems to jive with the "podfade" notion that the summary was talking about. The bar for entry is low enough that people are getting into it without any thought to how they'll make it profitable, so a lot of them have trouble continuing when the initial enthusiasm dies down and a lack of new motivations have arisen to take its place.
But just because you can start a podcast from a bedroom, that doesn't mean that podcasts can't be businesses, any more than the fact that you can set up a website from your
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A few I've listened to has sponsors mentioned in the intro/outro, I've also noticed product placements. Some record in front of a paying audience, others are (edited) radio shows. I don't recall anyone begging for patreon/money but I assume it's out there.
But yes, I do think most are not getting anything and just do it for fun. I believe that researching a subject and inviting others to participate in doing something is a great thing and encourage anyone to do so (some cartoon named character apparently did
I, therefore everyone (Score:2)
I pay nothing for podcasts. I see no advertisements. ... Podcasters should list themselves as "unemployed" on their tax returns.
I use an adblocker. Should every writer and web dev consider themselves unemployed too?
No Agenda (Score:2)
As Adam Curry says - you can't monetize the network. No Agenda has been working on a completely listener-supported model for 12 years. Seems to work OK for them.
It's fun listening to them talk about podcast networks. Some media conglomerate opened up a big podcasting studio in Brooklyn a few months ago. This is great news for independent podcasters, as when it goes out of business, you'll be able to pick up some really nice gear for cheap at the liquidation sale.
Have we hit peak book / blog / album? (Score:2)
That said, does the proliferation of podcasts mean they're going to go away? I didn't see that case demonstrated in the article.
People still blog although 'everyone has a a blog', they still record albums despite it being so easy that 'everyone has an album', and more books are being written than ever before.
Huge market (Score:3)
I never really got the appeal of podcasting
If you have much of a commute at all you can hit a wall pretty quickly with audiobooks or the same music over and over, podcasts provide a huge amount of ever-changing variety that you don't need to pay as close attention to mostly as you might a book.
Also sometimes it's nice to listen to podcasts while working, though I find them more distracting than music personally so mostly I use music (or nothing).
I think podcasts make possible longer form interviews that wou
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I'm in mostly the same boat. However I tore through Hardcore History: Wrath of the Khans and really, really loved that. It was a whole lot of history I had no clue about, and really opened my eyes to just how big the Khan empire was. And just how close it came to taking over the Roman empire and all of Europe.
I should probably listen to the rest of the series at some point. I just don't have enough of a commute anymore to really warrant the effort of working through a podcast. That leaves sitting on the cou
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Check out my new podcast "Podfade".... (Score:1)
.. where I discuss how there are too many podcasts on my own podcast. I will interview other podcasters who also have podcasts discussing podcasts that discuss podcasts. A singularity of meta-podcastry might form.
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The same thing happened with blogs when they were new. There were bloggers who were blogging about blogging. The meta-crisis almost broached critical mass.
Unfortunately, these folks didn't implode into a singularity, and the phenomenon will repeat itself.
What's that? (Score:2)
Re:What's that? (Score:4, Funny)
So you've achieved peak disinterest!
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It's like the radio, except you can choose the topic and you can decide between rambling hosts or no-fluff hosts.
Personally, the amount of info I've learned from listening while driving or doing chores has let me start a home-based business. That's way better than wasting away in front of the TV or listening to music like I used to do.
If listening to podcasts is a waste of time for you, then you're listening to the wrong podcasts. They can be basically audio books and I've effectively gotten a 2-yr degree
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" better than wasting away in front of the TV "
Which finally brings up the element of TIME regarding podcasts. Podcasts often pose as an informative media. If you could choose between a 1,000 word podcast or the same information as text, which would it be?
Only a very slow and disorganized reader would find the podcast faster. The adept reader would easily skip the small talk and get the meat of the issue in a flash. The text could even be copied, pasted, edited, indexed and stored for future reference. Try
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It's like the radio, except
You know how I can tell we've hit peak podcast? When the company formerly known as Clear Channel starts pushing them, even advertising them on actual radio stations in a "look, we have podcasts!" sort of way. They've even gone so far as to run random podcasts on broadcast radio, which is a clear sign that someone up high has failed to understand the point of podcasting.
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Same, I must be old? Even if I commute an hour, I prefer audio books
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It's like the internet, except you can choose the piece of specialty GUI software to put in charge of how and when to obtain recordings and you can decide between evil and "do-no-evil" tracking of your habits.
Personally, the amount of info I've learned from podcasts could fit on a matchbook. That's way worse than having an archive of vetted, stored .mp3 recordings you can access anytime anywhere like I do.
If listening to podcasts is a waste of time for you, welcome to the club. They can be basically repla
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Ditto. Kill all the "influencers". Better yet, avoid their platforms. And social media. (Does Jedi handwave - "those are not the friends you're looking for .")
I agree (Score:2)
These podcasters need to become youtubers, bloggers, or at least show up for karaoke at deserted bars on Tuesday nights. We haven't hit peak any-of-those yet.
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90% of everything is garbage (Score:2)
90% of what is out there now sucks.
Sure it's true that 90% of what is out there is garbage, but that percentage has pretty much always been true, it's just the focus of the garbage that has shifted...
But because that is true, the large expansion of the number of podcasts means there are a lot more great podcasts in absolute terms because the size of the 10% is also growing.
As you say, the trick now is finding the good ones... but they are out there, and there are more of them.
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So, the question is, "How do you find interesting podcasts?"
I've found several good conservative podcasts at The Daily Wire (Ben Shapiro, Andrew Klavan) who cover politics. I've tried finding some liberal shows. The closest I've come to finding anything listenable is "Black on the Air", by Larry Wilmore. Other than that, the liberal podcasts I've found have been shallow "Orange Man Bad" tripe, that is just tiresome.
I've found some language instruction podcasts that are very worthwhile.
Every science or te
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I think they same could be said for any form of media. The science shows I find interesting aren't really podcasts, but just normal radio shows released as podcasts. For example, Science Friday, Quirks and Quarks, ABC Science Show, BBC's The Science Hour. Politics might include Fresh Air, Diane Rehm's On My Mind, NPR Politics podcast. These are mostly regular radio shows (Diane Rehm just does the podcast now that she's retired). Lots of BBC programs also. There's also an interesting show called 99% inv
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I used to like the Gimlet podcasts, until they sold out to Spotify and both the content frequency and content quality dropped off a cliff.
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I'm glad I didn't legitimately need a /. post to tell me we are well past the Podcast peak. I've been listening to a span of different podcasts for about ~8 years now and every time I venture out looking for a new one, it's honestly remarkably fabricated and exactly as TFA describes: out to be a poser influencer (I still don't know wtf that really means), collect ad revenue streams and be undeniably non-genuine, fake, shallowly shocking and super F difficult to even listen to after 30 seconds. It can be from sports talk, to historical events or short story audiobook narration to some B-comic ranting for an hour about something; 90% of what is out there now sucks.
It's too bad, but just like anything that had a tie to the internet and/or mobile platform: sooner or later it was going to get exploited to hell and back.
Well, if you can't find enough podcasts that you like, that is a sign there aren't enough podcasts. 90% of everything is crap and always will be. It's just that nobody can agree on which 10% doesn't suck as we all have different tastes and interests. Peak podcasting would be when you find too many podcasts you wish to listen to than possible. I've been trying for the last two years and still have trouble filling up the 5-8 hours of commute time I have every week with stuff I want to listen to.
Podcasts? (Score:2)
No! (Score:4, Informative)
Betteridge says so.
The real question is... (Score:2)
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Is the proliferation of podcasts a big surprise? (Score:2)
Big surprise. Career "experts" are contually harping about building your "
I'm not sure (Score:2)
I never listend to a pod cast, so the peak might be if I ever do.
I also never watch "video tutorials" ... reading is 100 times faster.
Gate-keeping (Score:2)
People are getting tired of "Personal Branding" (Score:2)
I actually like podcasts that have relevant work information. I'm getting older; I have a life outside of work and kids, so keeping up with every single new development in IT is nearly impossible. I've got about a 30-minute drive each way, so it gives me a good way to at least pick up on what people are talking about and get a handle on what should at least get a look in my very limited "study time." Believe it or not, once you develop non-work interests it gets harder to dedicate one's life to IT/dev; you
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oh this is why I never listened to a podscast, I have an android phone.
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You probably need to make a bit more effort to search them out. I have over one hundred astronomy, science, engineering and microbiology podcasts accumulating on a home pc using gPodder from RSS feeds. I just transfer a chunk over to a portable device to listen to when away. I never bought into iTunes or mobile phone walled gardens.