Zack Snyder Plans Another Version of Re-Edited 'Justice League' - in Black and White (comicbook.com) 93
From a report:
On Saturday, Zack Snyder himself will head to Twitch to unveil the first look at Justice League: Justice Is Gray... the grayscale version that will soon arrive on HBO Max. The "pre-show" for the event kicks off at 2:30 p.m. Pacific Time on the MANvsGAME channel, with the Snyder and and Justice League star Joe Manganiello joining the broadcast for the big reveal at 4:00 p.m. Pacific. StreamElements designed audience tools to use during the stream, including an engaging donation functionality that will benefit the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.
The Chicago Tribune argues all you needed to know about Joss Whedon's original 2017 version is encapsulated in the 68-second YouTube video "Sad Affleck." (An SFGate columnist calls the new version "vastly better.") But the Tribune calls Snyder's four-hour director's cut "a 14-year-old's idea of gravitas. Epic, violent, full of naughty words, told with the lyricism of a pharmaceutical ad about bloating. And more importantly, for now, it's complete."
Yahoo Entertainment's Insider has compiled "The 45 biggest differences between 'Zack Snyder's Justice League' and the 2017 theatrical version." But Variety just specifically asked Zack Snyder, "Why is Justice League so violent?" [T]he violence in "Justice League" is bloodier and more violent than audiences are typically accustomed to with superhero movies, which are almost always rated PG-13 — and therefore largely bloodless. Snyder wanted to push the envelope. "It's a pure exercise in creative freedom," the director told Variety this week... Snyder says knowing his film would be streaming on HBO Max freed him from having to make his "Justice League" work for a PG-13 rating.
"Let's just do it the exact way we would if there was no ratings board," he said of his team's thinking. "Let's not use any second guessing. Let's just do it the way we think is the coolest. That was the philosophical approach." Part of the reason that "Justice League" is so violent is to realistically demonstrate what it would be like to actually face off against god-like superheroes.
ComicBook.com reports that Snyder is now also planning "a multi-day SnyderVerse movie marathon later in 2021, where showings of Man of Steel and Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice will culminate in a theatrical IMAX screening of Zack Snyder's Justice League. The filmmaker is a "huge admirer" of the Justice Is Gray Edition in IMAX, calling it the "ultimate version" of Justice League that is "sort of the penultimate ridiculous movie that shouldn't exist at its highest most fetishistic level."
Snyder tells Esquire his four-hour re-edit was "a labor of love and I would do it again in a second. I wouldn't hesitate. And look, we were doing it for free. I really didn't care. I just wanted to get it, fix it."
Esquire adds that "Even if you decide not to dive into a four hour super hero movie, at least take away a lesson from the making of the Snyder Cut: in a time when so much of us have experienced wrongs and tragedy, sometimes wrongs can be righted, and sometimes your biggest visions find a way to get out into the world."
The Chicago Tribune argues all you needed to know about Joss Whedon's original 2017 version is encapsulated in the 68-second YouTube video "Sad Affleck." (An SFGate columnist calls the new version "vastly better.") But the Tribune calls Snyder's four-hour director's cut "a 14-year-old's idea of gravitas. Epic, violent, full of naughty words, told with the lyricism of a pharmaceutical ad about bloating. And more importantly, for now, it's complete."
Yahoo Entertainment's Insider has compiled "The 45 biggest differences between 'Zack Snyder's Justice League' and the 2017 theatrical version." But Variety just specifically asked Zack Snyder, "Why is Justice League so violent?" [T]he violence in "Justice League" is bloodier and more violent than audiences are typically accustomed to with superhero movies, which are almost always rated PG-13 — and therefore largely bloodless. Snyder wanted to push the envelope. "It's a pure exercise in creative freedom," the director told Variety this week... Snyder says knowing his film would be streaming on HBO Max freed him from having to make his "Justice League" work for a PG-13 rating.
"Let's just do it the exact way we would if there was no ratings board," he said of his team's thinking. "Let's not use any second guessing. Let's just do it the way we think is the coolest. That was the philosophical approach." Part of the reason that "Justice League" is so violent is to realistically demonstrate what it would be like to actually face off against god-like superheroes.
ComicBook.com reports that Snyder is now also planning "a multi-day SnyderVerse movie marathon later in 2021, where showings of Man of Steel and Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice will culminate in a theatrical IMAX screening of Zack Snyder's Justice League. The filmmaker is a "huge admirer" of the Justice Is Gray Edition in IMAX, calling it the "ultimate version" of Justice League that is "sort of the penultimate ridiculous movie that shouldn't exist at its highest most fetishistic level."
Snyder tells Esquire his four-hour re-edit was "a labor of love and I would do it again in a second. I wouldn't hesitate. And look, we were doing it for free. I really didn't care. I just wanted to get it, fix it."
Esquire adds that "Even if you decide not to dive into a four hour super hero movie, at least take away a lesson from the making of the Snyder Cut: in a time when so much of us have experienced wrongs and tragedy, sometimes wrongs can be righted, and sometimes your biggest visions find a way to get out into the world."
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He was given ~$70 million to basically repackage a movie with an original budget of over $300 million.
That just blows my mind. A lot of directors would've made a couple of really good, original films for that money.
Furthermore, they are going to re-release it on vinyl.
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> Furthermore, they are going to re-release it on vinyl.
It's not retro enough if they aren't doing a CED release.
Re: Hell, why not? (Score:2)
Wait for the rotoscope version (Score:2)
or the 8 bit version.
Full disclosure I'm not a Snyder fan (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with Snyder doing DC is he doesn't like comic books, so he can't really capture any of the fun of them. When he tried with that Flash side plot it fell flat (and I understand he took it out).
I guess if you want a generic action movie go for it, and throw enough set pieces into any summer blockbuster and it'll make money (as long as it's shown in China). But I wish he'd go make generic action movies and leave the comic movies to somebody who actually likes comic books. Even in passing.
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these are supposed to be fun and colorful, not grey and dreary
You only read Huey, Dewey and Louie??
Explains a bit...
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but these are supposed to be fun and colorful
Errr what? What kind of comic books have you been reading? I certainly have read a lot of DC comics that aren't remotely fun. Bloodthirsty, brutal, serious, but not fun. The most critically acclaimed of the Batman movies isn't fun, it's dark and gloomy much like the comics. Hell DC has released plenty of comics in black and white as well.
Don't judge what comics are supposed to be purely by the latest Avengers film.
Maybe It's cause I cut my teeth (Score:2)
It's not about tackling serious stories, it's about being so damn dreary and frankly downright Emo. It's depressing for depression's sake. The worst kind of edgy, which given the number of spikes on Steppenwolf's costume I guess at least fits the motif.
edit, "isn't" 24/7 GrimDark (Score:2)
Greyscale, or black-and-white? (Score:1)
OK, I'm being nit-picky here, but traditional black-and-whtie film really was black-and-white under a magnifier.
If it's presented digitally, it's probably better to do it greyscale at least on the viewer's device: Even the equivalent of a 4K TV at normal viewing distance isn't fine-grained enough to "look greyscale" if every pixel is either "black" or "white."
Not that I care, I'm more interested in the story. If the artist makes a choice to use black-and-white, greyscale, non-standard color shifts or brigh
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If the artist makes a choice to use black-and-white, greyscale, non-standard color shifts or brightness levels, or other "artistic" ways of filming, it better contribute to the storyline or it's just a waste.
Originally, all photographs, movies and television programs were in black and white. It was not an "artistic choice", it was the only technology that existed at the time.
Now, black and white is considered hip and cool and artistic. Bullshit. There is nothing artistic about working in black and white. This is just another money grab. Putting out yet another version of the same shitty movie, to make more profit from people who have more money than brains (and they don't have very much money).
But, there
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Black and white could offer two things: the stark noir aspect, and a crisper image due to only one type of film grain, as opposed to several for colors to produce a dot of sorts.
Only the former applies, and you rarely see the hyper clear true black and white anymore.
Anyway, images must be designed for black and white. You can't just drop the color and presume you'll even get the decent noir aspect.
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Semantics. In the modern world, "black and white" is assumed to mean greyscale. One bit per pixel, with or without dithering, is simply not going to be used for something like this so I don't even know what you'd call it.
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His next remake will be called "256 Shades of Grey", out of respect for all us shlubs who don't have HDR everything.
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But what I want to know, as someone who saw the original version of Justice League and found it "Meh!", is sitting 4 hours for another rerun worth it at all ?
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If you like Transformers and other shit CGI heavy sensory overload with nonsensical plot, deus ex machina on multiple occasions and Henry Cavill with his shirt off, it's still a shit film.
Snyder sucks (Score:2)
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The irony of that statement is that his best film is one on which he also wrote the screenplay.
I love long movies... (Score:2)
I love long movies more than anybody; that having been said, Snyder is no Peter Jackson - he constantly tries for profundity and it eludes him completely.
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I love long movies more than anybody; that having been said, Snyder is no Peter Jackson - he constantly tries for profundity and it eludes him completely.
Better to try and fail than, like Jackson, not even make the effort.
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Better to try and fail
There is no "try."
Gray (Score:5, Funny)
>"Gray... the grayscale version that will soon arrive on HBO Max. "
Stupid. Here, why not also:
* Crop it to 4:3 aspect ratio
* Downmix the sound to mono
* Lower the resolution to 640x480
* Adjust the brightness to half
So kewl, so hip, so raw, so fresh, so visionary.
Re:Gray (Score:5, Informative)
It already is presented at 4:3. Snyder wanted to preserve the IMAX aspect ratio.
On the whole, I thought it would have made a better mini-series, not because I don't like longer movies, but because it seemed to be paced as though it were building toward several intermediate mini-climaxes. It felt more like binge-watching than movie watching.
It was definitely a more coherent story than the Whedon version and one that served the characters better.
Grayscale seems gimmicky, but I can see where it could have been part of the original vision that Snyder couldn't get past the studio until he had received strong backing from the fans (as he has gotten over the last few years.) It seems unnecessarily "Lucas-y" to keep futzing with a film once he's had the opportunity to restore it to his original vision, but if he feels it's an important artistic statement, he's welcome to make it. I doubt I'll watch it, though.
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Stupid. Here, why not also:
* Crop it to 4:3 aspect ratio
Errr. I think you didn't see Justice League https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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>"Errr. I think you didn't see Justice League https://www.youtube.com/watch [youtube.com]?... [youtube.com]
I saw it on bluray, which was 16:9, 1080P, color, surround. Perhaps it was cropped from 4:3.
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I saw it on bluray, which was 16:9, 1080P, color, surround. Perhaps it was cropped from 4:3.
Yes it was.
The new JL was okay (Score:3)
Even so, it was also desperately long and contained a lot filler material that could have been truncated or excised completely including most of the epilogue. And why it was shot in 4:3 was bizarre - indulgence or problems with the raw footage? I reckon the definitive cut could have easily knocked an hour and a half off the running length with no great loss to continuity.
*SPOILERS* (for real) (Score:1)
*SPOILERS*
Does this new cut have that ridiculous pivotal moment when Batman decides that his arch-nemesis Superman is actually his best friend because their mothers have the same name?
That plot point was so stupid as to be outright insulting to the audience. I mean, I know we are watching a comic book movie, but even so, with character motivations that unbelievable the story may as well have been written by a random number generator.
Re:*SPOILERS* (for real) (Score:4, Informative)
a) that happened in Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice, this article is about a different movie.
b) Batman didn't decide Superman is his best friend because their mothers have the same name. The absurdity of Superman asking to save Batman's mother is what gave Batman enough pause to consider why Superman was doing what he was doing - and realizing that Superman was holding back because Luthor had his mother hostage changed Batman's perspective.
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Ah I see yes, I got the two movies confused. "Justice" is in both of them and I found both to be forgettable.
However, I poked around online and it looks like my memory of the infamous "Martha" scene was accurate. Example [screenrant.com].
Superman was not asking to save Batman's mother. He was asking to save his own mother. And their mothers did, in fact, have the same name. This made Batman do a 180 and decide to team up with the very being he thought was worthy of death. Straight-up absurd. And I am not the only one
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Superman was not asking to save Batman's mother.
That is the whole bloody point. Batman didn't know Superman's mother's name! So - why was Superman saying that he was letting them kill his (Batman's) mother? (The actual quote I believe is "You're letting them kill Martha") Thus his immediate reaction: "What does that mean? Why did you say that name?" That's what gave him pause - enough to shake him out of blind quest for vengeance (even Alfred was ripping him for it, and he wasn't listening to Alfred), enough for him to look beyond the trees to try and u
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(B) only applies if Batman is neutral about Superman for a long time, and then Superman's most recent actions caused him to want to fight Superman. But they didn't, this has been an ongoing mission for a while of Batman's. So his motivation on his most recent actions is irrelevant.
See also, if you find out Thanos was being mind controlled during the (initial) final battle in Wakanda, does that change anything?
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Re: The new JL was okay (Score:2)
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You're assuming that 4:3 means "less sides" as opposed to "more top and bottom". But I would say that increasing resolution tends to increase rendering costs, because each pixel has to be computed. Your point seems to be that it it requires fewer models onscreen at any time, but if the camera is panning enough to require them to be incldued, they have to be created. At that point, the additional work is just the extra rendering.
I'd guess that the only real additional work for a wider screen would be pret
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I thought it was surprising how little filler there was, basically none in fact. It was all important development for the characters and really helped make them feel like more than just CGI stand-ins for fights. The original tried to substitute character development for a few familiar one-liners... It might have worked if the characters had had their solo movies to set them up, but as it stands they really needed the treatment they got here.
The Cyborg stuff in particular was really good, it added a lot to t
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Those are all things that were used to establish the characters and give them some stakes. I suppose you could argue that some of the scenes could have been a little shorter, but I think fleshing it out really helped with the world building and to make the JL feel like more of a team.
One of the main issues with the original was just throwing stuff on screen with no explanation or build up, so it felt meaningless and like you were supposed to have already seen a bunch of other stuff setting it all up.
The IMA
Comic book movies are no longer for kids (Score:2)
[T]he violence in "Justice League" is bloodier and more violent than audiences are typically accustomed to with superhero movies, which are almost always rated PG-13
I don't see why anyone would be surprised at this, since really for years now it has become extremely clear that adults the largest audience for superhero movies. Yes kids still enjoy them, but adults dominate and so it follows naturally more adult oriented films are coming based around superheroes...
If you want an excellent example, look no fu
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Sin City has already trod that ground. The first one was damned near perfect, too.
Yes Sin City great example (Score:1)
Very true, after Sin City the debate about comic book movies being able to be artistic or dark or gory or sexy should have been over... also really loved that first one.
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I think the difference is that the source material in Sin City was also for adults. With the exception of quasi-canonical stuff like the Injustice games, ZSJL is much more violent than most of the original source material.
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Except that it was cartoon violence - and by cartoon, I mean Tom & Jerry or Roadrunner.
Which works in a cartoon but was a big reason that Transformers and Justice League are so fucking unwatchable. Powerful warriors throwing each other through brick walls, getting up and shattering the pavement by jumping.. it's not conveying awesome power, it's demonstrating terrible storytelling.
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Teenagers are more likely to enjoy the blood and violence than adults.
Re: Comic book movies are no longer for kids (Score:2)
Jesus H Christ, the dude needs to get over himself (Score:3)
Justice League: Justice is Grey. Really? How is this not a parody?!
Someone needs to tell Snyder he didn't direct Casablanca here.
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I gave it a go and, honestly, it improves very little over the original. The core issues with the movie are still very much there.
Also, there's so much 300-esque slow motion on the ner version, i reckon you could shorten the movie by an hour if you speed those up to normal.
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It fixed almost all the issues with the original.
Characters were properly developed and fleshed out. The plot is a lot more coherent. The main bad guy, Steppenwolf, is a proper character with motivations and a personality, compared to the anonymous CGI punchbag of the original.
They even fixed the big fight at the end. My main criticism is that they still just had Superman turn up and be unbeatable... In the comics Wonder Woman is just as powerful and it would have been nice if it had required both of them,
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The problem with the cinematic release is that things just happen, it's just plot and CGI. There's no back story, there's no character development, there's people introduced who we have no frigging idea who they are or what they do, there's a bad guy that just for what we can see wants to be bad, and good guys that build a team for shits and giggles really.
Snyder's cut is 2 hours longer than the cinematic release. It's literally double the movie. There's only so much you can cut out before you start hitting
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The problem with the cinematic release is that things just happen, it's just plot and CGI. There's no back story, there's no character development.
Oh I do not dispute that people complained about these problems in the cinematic release, but having seen other Snyder movies, I would say these problems are present in his films too. Slow motion style over substance has been trademarks of many Snyder films.
Snyder's cut is 2 hours longer than the cinematic release.
That would explain why the studio had to intervene. His cut is 4 hours and 2 minutes. I cannot imagine many theaters would like that. Maybe they should have made 2 movies like Infinity War but that was not the choice that was made.
Frankly I think many d
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I agree he's had his fair share of misses, but that's not a given. Many of his movies also have well written consistent plots driven by character development. Look at Man of Steel for an example. Sure the end became a CGI punch fest to the background of a skybeam but the entire movie was nonetheless very well written and directed. Wonder Woman slightly less so but still a great movie, as was Aquaman.
The problem is I look to his flops and all I see is interference. Suicide Squad, Batman vs Superman, WW1984,
That would explain why the studio had to intervene. His cut is 4 hours and 2 minutes.
N
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Many of his movies also have well written consistent plots driven by character development.
I don't know about that. According to his filmography, his 2nd movie was 300 [wikipedia.org] which I would not consider driven by character development and having a consistent plot. His next movie was Watchmen [wikipedia.org] which many fans of the comic book series dislike. Both of these films have the same criticism of visual appeal over plot and substance.
The problem is I look to his flops and all I see is interference. Suicide Squad, Batman vs Superman, WW1984,
Again I do not dispute there has been studio interference but the problem I see is that the studio was fine with his style as long as he still made money. His track record is not goo
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300 is interesting. It's driven by one thing and one thing only, an attempt to replicate a comic book on a screen. It did that very well, but staying so close to the soruce material meant there was little room to wiggle. Similar with the Watchmen. Having read all the comics and seen the movie I was actually quite pleased with it, but I found it lacking. Not because of Snyder, but because the Watchmen is an epic. If it had an 11 hour long lord of the rings style trilogy, or a short mini series it may actuall
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> Someone needs to tell Snyder he didn't direct Casablanca here.
Some people liked 300 but everything else made a quarter of the revenue it should have because "superheroes should be conflicted and depressed". I think he listened to Five for Fighting's /Superman/ and decided to build a career on it.
It seemed like maybe he had compromising information on somebody at WB but after co-writing the /Wonder Woman is a Rapist/ film, I'm at a loss for how he keeps getting these gigs. /Shazam/ was aimed at a diffe
If anyone is keeping track (Score:2)
Have there been more versions of Justice League than Blade Runner yet?
Ridley Scott re-edited the original Blade Runner into how many different cuts?
Re: If anyone is keeping track (Score:2)
Movie Remix (Score:2)
Snyder cut so broody (Score:3)
I just watched the Snyder cut.
The character introduction is much better (it better be given the length of the movie) and does not give off that rushed vibe the first one had. Overall, the pace seems better.
But every character is traumatized and broody. With so much drama, they should have casted Meryl Strip as superman's mom. It is nice how the super emos come together and overcome their personal tragedies, but would it kill them to have some fun in the process?
The costumes are just hideous, why is superman's costume black? Cyborg's body looks like wrinkled tinfoil. Flash's costume looks like he tarred himself and rolled around in a city dumpster. Even wonder woman's costume is lifeless. Compare those costumes to their marvel counterparts, colorful and just fun to watch.
The big bad is forgettable. We will be talking about Thanos for a long time, nobody will remember the name of the bad guy in Justice League.
If the first movie was a C, I give this a C+
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The big bad is forgettable. We will be talking about Thanos for a long time,
Can I just point out that Thanos' whole plot revolved around fiding six magic beans and sticking them to a glove?
And that any half-witted viewer could see that Dr Strange could defeat Thanos without raising a sweat? The Invisible Girl/Woman could probably have handled him, but that arch-enemy Licencing got in the way.
The guy can't even fly, but we're supposed to believe that he can conquer a universe of superhumans?.
(I've not seen any version of JL, FWIW; but the Infinity Bollocks movies were very badly plo
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The Flash is an unstoppable optimist, they actually cut him having doubts and made him more positive in this version. Diana was hardly brooding either. Serious about the threat they faced, but when she did talk about her past loss it was in the context of moving past it and getting on with her life.
Steppenwolf is vastly improved from the original. He actually has a personality now, and motivations beyond just being born evil and bent on destroying everything.
I think they did enough to warrant a sequel and s
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No, no it wasn't. It was overly emo, he absolutely failed to understand any of the hope and optimism they were supposed to embody. The storyline was boring, the big bad was laughable, and it was 2 hours too long. I'd rather rewatch Fan4stic then ever see Snyder make another comic book movie. He's destroyed any hope of an actual DCEU and likely destroyed Superman in movies for 20 years because he doesn't understand the damn character. Its the worst movie I've seen in years. I actually think Whedon's cu
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I think HBO had a lot of influence here. Maybe they got some writers in to help with it. Either that or Snyder got a hell of a lot better at making superhero movies.
"Emo" is a bizarre word to apply to it, if that's your standard for something being overly emotional then practically anything qualifies. The characters would have to be largely emotionless, kinda like they were in the original, because there really wasn't much. For example Cyborg's dad dies (spoiler alert) and he turns that around into motivati
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Not to mention being named after a 60s rock band. Quality.
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I hope it works out, black and white film is an interesting medium.
It can be. But shooting in B&W doesn't make a movie interesting.
Reminds me of a funny scene in a movie (forgot the title) I saw years ago, about a young student struggling to get into the movie biz, while still being able to make "artsy" movies. He sits in a cafe with some B&W movie playing on the TV, watching in rapt admiration... until the barman looks up, whacks the TV... and the colors come back.
Can make a cell-shaded one also (Score:1)
It's a creative business model. (Score:2)
We knew that comic book fans will pay to see a movie they think they're going to hate, just on the off chance it might no be so bad.
Now we know they'll pay to see a new cut of a movie they've already seen and hated, just on the off chance it might be less bad. And a new cut costs a lot less than a new movie.
I see no reason not to extend that paradigm indefinitely, as long as you're making money.
Anyone else tired of comic book movies (Score:2)
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This is Zach's life now ... (Score:2)
Just making re-edited versions of Justice League ... Not sure what he's trying to prove or what this is all about, simply insecurity or angst over Joss Whedon taking over. If the latter, maybe he should try reediting Serenity -- or anything else better than JL will ever be. (I'm not a big fan of the DC films, but to each their own...) Time to move on Zach.
If Zach could re-edit other things ... (Score:2)
Saw this, thought I'd pass it along...
If other things in the world were given a Snyder cut. [washingtonpost.com]
"The thought of someone being able to remake anything into a desolate saga suggests a universe of terrifying possibility. Here are some Snyder cuts of other things." (Starts with "The Sound of Music" and ends with "2020-2021")
Season One of Superman was in black and white (Score:2)
Needs more grainyness too! (Score:1)
I used to joke, that "depression gray" is the trend color of the 2010s so much that we will soon go back to black and white movies... And now it's becoming a reality.
But doesn't Snyder know? The trend color of the 2020s is "depression gray MELANGE"! Which is for those, who think regular non-grainy gray isn't already depressing enough.
But maybe he's already on to the latest potential trend color "VERY DARK depression gray". Which I see more and more recently, and which somehow manages no be even more depress
Why is this mediocre man in the news this much? (Score:1)
He's dragged some great comics into crap adaptations, and we keep giving him chances. The DC universe struggles under him as Marvel succeeds at even it's weakest comics.
Fair enough, let him finish his big film, Justice League, the way he wanted. Arguably it might be one of the good ones. But you'll never get a great film from him. His best is just not good enough.