Are Things 'Looking Grim' For Movies Based on DC Superheroes? (theverge.com) 117
"The fate of Warner Bros. DC Comics movies is looking grim," writes the Verge.
Since April's merger between Warner Brothers and Discovery, they call it "fairly obvious" that "the new guard at Warner Bros. Discovery wants to jettison or at the very least put some distance between itself and the DC Extended Universe's current iteration (along with all the baggage associated with the endeavor.)" The DC Extended Universe was plagued by a number of issues long... like a general lack of cohesion, subpar storytelling, and an association with a toxic fandom whose obsession eventually devolved into harassment campaigns against studio executives. Looking back, Justice League as it was released in 2017 was a haphazard attempt to catch up to the Marvel Cinematic Universe that put far too much faith in the power of people's general familiarity with characters like Wonder Woman, Cyborg, and Aquaman who didn't really have presences in the DC Extended Universe at the time.
Screen Rant calls Justice League "a movie that polarized audiences and was less successful than Man of Steel at the box office" — then explains what happened next: The DC Extended Universe had been struggling with highly divisive or critically panned movies, such as Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad, but it was not until Justice League that the franchise really took a significant financial hit. In addition, Justice League was also the start of a series of behind-the-scenes controversies, and at this point, it is difficult to picture the Justice League cast all returning for a sequel....
With Ben Affleck seemly done with Batman and the studio wanting to move away from everything Justice League-related, DC needed a way to combine what had been working, such as Jason Momoa's Aquaman and Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman, with new strategies, such as Michael Keaton's [appearing in the upcoming Flash movie as] Batman. The answer seemed simple — the multiverse....
The fact that Batgirl, a movie that would have shown the aftermath of The Flash's multiverse journey, was canceled [last week] proves that the multiverse is no longer a priority for DC. Not only that but right before Batgirl's cancelation was announced, it was reported that Ben Affleck would replace Michael Keaton's rumored cameo in Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom.... During Warner Bros. Discovery's earning calls on August 5, CEO David Zaslav mentioned that the new management will make upcoming DC Extended Universe movies like Black Adam and The Flash "even better", suggesting that reshoots could be on the way.
Since April's merger between Warner Brothers and Discovery, they call it "fairly obvious" that "the new guard at Warner Bros. Discovery wants to jettison or at the very least put some distance between itself and the DC Extended Universe's current iteration (along with all the baggage associated with the endeavor.)" The DC Extended Universe was plagued by a number of issues long... like a general lack of cohesion, subpar storytelling, and an association with a toxic fandom whose obsession eventually devolved into harassment campaigns against studio executives. Looking back, Justice League as it was released in 2017 was a haphazard attempt to catch up to the Marvel Cinematic Universe that put far too much faith in the power of people's general familiarity with characters like Wonder Woman, Cyborg, and Aquaman who didn't really have presences in the DC Extended Universe at the time.
Screen Rant calls Justice League "a movie that polarized audiences and was less successful than Man of Steel at the box office" — then explains what happened next: The DC Extended Universe had been struggling with highly divisive or critically panned movies, such as Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad, but it was not until Justice League that the franchise really took a significant financial hit. In addition, Justice League was also the start of a series of behind-the-scenes controversies, and at this point, it is difficult to picture the Justice League cast all returning for a sequel....
With Ben Affleck seemly done with Batman and the studio wanting to move away from everything Justice League-related, DC needed a way to combine what had been working, such as Jason Momoa's Aquaman and Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman, with new strategies, such as Michael Keaton's [appearing in the upcoming Flash movie as] Batman. The answer seemed simple — the multiverse....
The fact that Batgirl, a movie that would have shown the aftermath of The Flash's multiverse journey, was canceled [last week] proves that the multiverse is no longer a priority for DC. Not only that but right before Batgirl's cancelation was announced, it was reported that Ben Affleck would replace Michael Keaton's rumored cameo in Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom.... During Warner Bros. Discovery's earning calls on August 5, CEO David Zaslav mentioned that the new management will make upcoming DC Extended Universe movies like Black Adam and The Flash "even better", suggesting that reshoots could be on the way.
Both are repetitive drivel (Score:3)
No (Score:4, Insightful)
I think both approaches have kind of failed. Marvel movies are forgettable standard summer blockbusters while DC movies are just a mess of ideas that never come together.
None of which matters because if you're into DC they keep putting out pretty excellent direct video releases with the obvious exception of what they did to killing joke. To be fair I don't think the killing joke could be adapted very well. There wasn't enough content there to get a 90-minute movie but everyone insisted on it being a 90-minute movie. They should have done something like hulk versus wolverine where they didn't have enough content to do a full movie so they did a two feature with hulk versus wolverine and hulk versus Thor.
And it was worth a crummy killing joke movie to get that incredibly cool video of Mark Hamill voicing the joker saying the final lines. And will always have flashpoint and justice league dark and crisis on two earths and... Well you get the point go watch them
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Because they continue to put out excellent movies as animation direct to video.
Yeah, considering how much high-quality story content they have ( in animation, comic books, and TV shows), it's kind of amazing that they haven't been able to come up with a really great collection of movies. There hasn't been a really good superman movie in decades, but there is plenty of potential there.
It's because they keep giving it to Synder (Score:3)
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Justice League Unlimited showed how the mom and Apple Pie Superman can be interesting.
That is epic. Superman is a world where good prevails. Which is essentially happening in all superhero movies anyway, so it's actually more honest to make it explicit.
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I don't mind the basic idea of a darker Superman, the problem is it wasn't very well done. Batman v Superman could have been really interesting, the idea that Batman becomes convinced that Superman is an existential threat, but it was simply poorly executed.
There are much more interesting takes in the comics. If Superman is loyal to the United States, does he get involved in their military conflicts? Does that make him just a tool of the government, which Batman rightly fears could be turned on the citizens
Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with recent superhero movies is it seems like they have to keep upping the stakes and now they have run out.
No longer is it about saving a person or a neighbourhood or a city or a country - the movies rapidly escalated to saving the whole planet, then the whole universe, to finally the multiverse with all of existence across all universes at stake. Where do you go from there?
There are too many long drawn out slugfests which follow two patterns - either the heroes are laying waste to hordes of aliens or robots or whatever with minimal effect until one final big "save the day" move kills the big bad that instantly wipes out the overwhelming hordes, or there is a massive long slugfest with a single super strong opponent with basically no effect on either the hero or the enemy until some super move or power suddenly finishes the fight.
That's just not that fun to watch. The long fights are boring and are a poor substitute for well thought out plot and dialogue.
There' only so many times I want to watch the origin story of various heroes over again, but movie writers seem compelled to keep rebooting the core heroes - Superman, Batman and Spiderman and that doesn't help either.
I'd like to see more stories where it wasn't the whole universe at stake, and perhaps resolution of problems without a massive slugfest for once.
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I'll tell you what though, the fight in the recent Thor where Thor himself went against a horde of monsters with only a bunch of kids on his side was pretty epic.
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That was.... the best movie making I've seen in decades. It was absolute fan service at its best, I could see every dad who loves his kids and hosted a birthday with mom out of town thrilling with it, and every mom cringing. They didn't really need the final scene with Love and Thunder after that scene, but the negotiation about what boots she heeds for the day brought back a lot of memories with children I've cared for.
Re: No (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, it's become s joke, how the universe seems threatened each week. Batman would be so much better returned to street level action. I enjoyed Luke Cage because it was small in scope and more personal.
Sure, epic CGI fights are visually impressive, but they are forgotten. They blur together. It's the storytelling and good character moments that stick in the brain. The first Wonder Woman film was on track to be great, then they ditched the interesting foes for yet another CGI slap fest.
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The Batman is another good example of that. Street level Batman, a bit over the top threatening Gotham City but there were plenty of personal stakes for him.
Re: No (Score:2)
Yeah, that's how Batman works best. He's a detective and a vigilante. He'd be a good character for a thriller.
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I don't think that's the problem.
I think the problem is the ridiculous broken narratives. "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME???"
We are grown-ups watching these movies. The superpowers just aren't enough to hold our attention. We want plots that are actually compelling, cohesive, and not stupid.
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Batman vs. Superman, given the popularity of the characters was pretty much guaranteed to turn a profit, and ultimately it doubled the investors' money. In theory that's a good result, but compared to Avengers: Endgame it's an embarrassing failure, *and nobody was surprised by that* given the DCEU's track record.
This seems to me to be the absolute worse conditions for fostering creative risk taking: huge expenses plus guaranteed profits plus expected failure. In comparison it must be much easier to do a g
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Batman vs. Superman, given the popularity of the characters was pretty much guaranteed to turn a profit, and ultimately it doubled the investors' money.
Good call, I forgot about that one.
I feel like you don't even need a super risky plot, just get some actors who are enjoying themselves on screen. Tony Stark is definitely having a good time (he even eats shwarma).
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Bad news is that they keep threatening to stop doing the animated movies, and officially there are no more in the original animated universe that started with Batman way back in the early 90s. That coincides with a decline in quality too.
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Where is DC tries to make interesting movies because they are trying to attract talent and they want to give their people and especially directors a lot of leeway.
I'm sorry but WHAT! If DC has been known by anything over the past decade it's been for incredibly shit writing (the kind of person who took the "don't do this" in writing 101 class, but showed up just in time to miss the word "don't"), and an insane level of studio meddling to the point of dictating the story against the wishes of writers and directors and then firing them sometimes mid-shoot if they don't fall in line.
Shit man this very story here represents just the latest example of *not* giving any lee
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Gosh, yes, Marvel has failed because their movies are successful. Yes, that makes sense! (OK, I do kinda get where you're going, but I wouldn't describe them all as "forgettable" - some, yes, but many were fun movies I'd watch again.)
DC's main issue is a lack of direction. It's a repeat of Commodore: Irving Gould has taken over and appointed Mehdi Ali as CEO [commodore.ca], so new managers are being appointed every year or two, all of whom feel the need to prove their worth by shitting on their predecessor's employee's work [arstechnica.com]. As a result, DC cannot get anything done that isn't a bodge job of different artists hacking something together and being forced to change direction two or three times each movie. Occasionally something creditable will come out of that mess, such as the first Wonder Woman movie, Shazam, and maybe Aquaman. But for the most part it's an unholy mess. I really, really, really, don't see why Zack Snyder has the popularity he has among his fans (you think Superman would be better if he was treated like Batman-from-space? Really?), but it's clear that simply ditching him and replacing him with a long line of suits and Joss Whedon was the wrong solution. Meanwhile, until WB stepped in and fucked everything up, the Arrowverse was just quietly doing its thing, appealing to CW's core audience and coming up with some amazing original stuff (Legends of Tomorrow, you died too soon), and it succeeded because being part of the CW it didn't have the eyes of WB on it, and as a result Greg Berlanti and Marc Guggenheim were given free rein to be great. But as soon as WB took an interest in the CW, well, it was fucked.
DC is going under because it's run by WB, and WB is going under because it's run like post-Tramiel Commodore. As I said recently, WB will be spoken of, in the next decade, in the same terms as the DuMont Network [wikipedia.org] or RKO. What a tragedy.
Well done bringing this back to topics Slashdotters can understand - albeit, older ones. I love the analogy to Tramiel. Except, didn't Tramiel jumpt ship and go to Atari - would that be like the head of WB/DC jumping ship to go ru(i)n Marvel? :)
Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
Let this super hero garbage fizzle out like a bad fart. It's been milked to death already time to move on.
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It's been milked to death already time to move on.
What's been milked to death? All the combined movies and TV series together don't come close to even scratching the surface of what is available in the source content.
You don't seem to like it, that's okay, go watch something else, there's plenty out there.
Now if you wanted to be specific: Batman. That has been milked to death, but only because every new release almost insists on doing an origin story.
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These franchises have already been milked for decades to produce the aforementioned "source content." Now, if you like the source content, more power to you, to each his own, etc. but there's a reason that fans of comic books are nerd types. The general public doesn't care to spend that much of their lives consuming this high volume of superhero content, and without the support of the general public the production of these movies won't be sustainable.
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Why so serious? (Score:5, Interesting)
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So something like Christopher Lloyd as Batman, and Michael J Fox as Robin?
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Bring back the Adam West version of Batman... bright, funny, doesn't take itself seriously. He's a man dressed like a bat for god's sake...
Also, the George Clooney Batman?
But I generally agree, the films have disappeared up their own arses in seriousness to the point where it's arguably even more silly.
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They kind of did with George Clooney's run in Batman and Robin. It's pretty much a modernized cheese fest; with over the top villains and Batman and Robin given some pretty silly lines. The only thing it lacked was "POW" "WHAM" "BLAMMO", and I wonder why some YouTube hasn't release a fan edit that throws those in.
Oh, and it's a fucking awful movie.
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The only thing it lacked was "POW" "WHAM" "BLAMMO", and I wonder why some YouTube hasn't release a fan edit that throws those in.
It would make the movie less silly.
It is so wildly over the top it almost seems like it's parodying itself from the beginning. The effects are performatively shonky. Ahhhnold speaks entirely in puns. Bat credit card?! Bat nipples. Bat junk. Bat butts. Oxbridge academy. Off the wall bad dialogue. And of course an utter mess of a plot.
Oh, and it's a fucking awful movie.
It is almost
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Indeed. No matter how much bleach you pour into your eyes, you can't unsee Bat nipples.
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I don't get why Batman has to be so dark and disturbing. Bring back the Adam West version of Batman... bright, funny, doesn't take itself seriously. He's a man dressed like a bat for god's sake...
The Batman movies are some of the only ones that consistently worked, I'm not sure that's the problem with the formula.
I think their big problem was trying to make Superman, an inspirational character, also dark and gritty.
Either way, the trademark of Marvel movies is "bright, funny, doesn't take itself seriously". If 90% of the film industry is going to be comic book movies at least have a couple of different flavours. I thought Harley Quinn and the new Suicide Squad movie were both very fun and much darke
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I suspect they wanted to appeal to an audience of old people who grew up with Batman. This audience had already seen all the campy silly stuff and were interested in a more intriguing plot line with some novelty to it. I sure don't know if this is true, it's just how it seems.
Also, the "everybody is flawed" theme seems to be popular in movies right now. Audience aren't responding to stainless noble heroes nearly as well as they are responding to heroes that show human weaknesses, fall to temptation, reve
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I don't get why Batman has to be so dark and disturbing.
Not a comic book fan are we? Batman has historically been all of the above in the comics too. He's a great character for dark and brooding (although Jesus Patterson put me to sleep).
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Some animated versions are like that. I think the problem viewerships. Do adults want to watch those? :P
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Your wish was already granted with Thor: Love and Thunder, complete with rainbow armor for Thor and a gay rock monster sidekick.
Success as "Baggage" (Score:2)
"the new guard at Warner Bros. Discovery wants to jettison or at the very least put some distance between itself and the DC Extended Universe's current iteration (along with all the baggage associated with the endeavor [theverge.com].)"
Of course the activist press cites as "baggage" a rare DCEU success (the Snyder cut), when the studio released something the fans actually wanted and enjoyed.
Zaslav cancelled Batgirl because he doesn't want another Birds of Prey: TFEOOHQ, a financial and PR* disaster that somehow isn't mentioned as baggage even in TFA. He'll do his best to cut ties with baggage like Ezra Miller and Amber Heard (also strangely absent from TFA) too, but the problem is their movies cost hundreds of millions already.
*
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Amber is as good as gone. LOTS of rumors flying she's already been replaced in Aquaman 2. over 4.6 MILLION signatures on change.org that said they will NOT see the movie if she is in it.
Remember the nuclear family... (Score:2)
subpar storytelling (Score:2)
This is what's killing EVERYTHING. I care a million times more about a good story than impressive visual effects. A good story should stick with you ling after you leave the theater and make you think. Every superhero movie I've seen in the last couple of years was the opposite of that. No stakes and instantly forgettable within minutes of leaving the theater, no effort whatsoever except in the CGI department. The worst part is the ACTUAL comic books often have powerful, engaging stories, so it's clear
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> The worst part is the ACTUAL comic books often have powerful, engaging stories, so it's clearly possible to do with superheroes.
Dude, comic books have some of the worst writing in the known universe. The amount of magical McGuffins, Deus Ex Machina and deaths without consequence is simply ludicrous. The idea that comic book writing is anywhere near the standard of a well-constructed novel or script is sheer fantasy.
Now that's partially an inherent limitation of the medium. Fiction consists of creati
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I believe you've rediscovered Sturgeon's Law, When confronted that 90% of science fiction is crud, the prolific and well respected science fiction author Theodore Sturgeon pointed out "90% of everythin is crud."
hot bodies in latex with magical powers (Score:1, Interesting)
Is this not a fantasy for teens? How is it that grown men (and a few women) still fap to this fantasy? The world is in crisis and humans are wrapped in an imaginary world where regular people are helpless victims and fantasy warriors with formidable powers fight to save (or kill) them.
These warriors are indestructible, thus they have no fear. They will go on episode after episode fighting the same enemies till the end of time. The sheeplike humans will continue being helpless victims and worshipful adoring
Re:hot bodies in latex with magical powers (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this not a fantasy for teens?
It's a fantasy for anyone who wants it.
How is it that grown men (and a few women) still fap to this fantasy?
Better than cranking it to your own sense superiority.
The world is in crisis[...]
The world has been in crisis on and off over the last 4000 years, yet fiction and even heroic fiction continues to be made. Are you going to whine about how could they write the Epic of Gilgamesh, when really it's all been downhill since Sargon of Akkad. There's a thousand year drought and the armies of Ur are at the gates and they're writing fiction? about superheroes??
I hoped that a story could be woven around Batman, the only one without magical powers. A human who used his wit and some clever devices to overcome great odds. But that didn't last. His wealth brought him gadgets that Bond couldn't access. He flies effortlessly around the city like Spiderman.
Oh I see, you're cranky (as well as cranking it) because someone didn't write precisely the story you want with exactly the characters you want. Try expanding your literary horizons.
Face it people, you have given up. Your world is so fucked up that you have come to believe that only magic can make it right. I have to assume that you don't make any effort to make the world a better place. Do you even vote?
Such grievance. Yes I vote, every time. No, it never makes the blindest bit of difference at the national level because I'm in a safe seat.
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The idea of voting fixing our problems is helplessly naive. The people abusing the people below them aren't restricting themselves to voting to change the world.
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While your nihilism is trendy and charming,, I'm pretty sure that myth building of omnipotent heroes and beings solving imagined problems like monsters and vast human issues is as old as humanity, we just used to call them heroes and gods.
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The world is in crisis and humans are wrapped in an imaginary world
Yeah no shit they are. Human use imagination to escape realities they don't like. There are of course plenty who don't do that, and you read about them in the news after they commit suicide after attempting to single handily face the constant reality of doom that is perpetually fed to them.
The world is always in crisis. Was always in crisis.
Everyone has an escape, whether that is the bottom of a bottle, watching superhero films, or just spending a happy Sunday calling out stupid posts on Slashdot.
Make movies people want to watch (Score:5, Insightful)
and they will.
Yes, it's that simple.
If you insist in making movies that go against the taste of your paying audience, you will receive negative reactions. It's a mystery to me how a studio can exist for so long that very obviously doesn't understand that basic principle of production.
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and they will.
Yes, it's that simple.
They are making movies that people want to watch.
They're just not making movies that you want to watch.
Remember: Huge numbers of people eat at McDonalds.
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Well... [boxofficemojo.com] compared to Marvel... [boxofficemojo.com]
Since big movies these days usually have to bring in somewhere between a quarter and half a billion to even be considered a success, it doesn't look that great for DC either way, even if you don't pit them against their biggest competitor. What is it that Marvel and Sony/Disney do different than DC/Warner?
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Since big movies these days usually have to bring in somewhere between a quarter and half a billion to even be considered a success
Not true. They just have to bring in more than they cost to make.
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Technically yes, but actually they have to bring in what their investors expect. Because otherwise these investors put their money elsewhere.
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That's not true. A significant portion of costs are incurred after you make them. A movie that brings in just more than it costs to make are not only considered a flop by literally everyone, they also lose a shitton of money after you address licensing, distribution, and marketing, all figures which are not included in their budget.
Most recent DC movies have been an utter failure on the financial front. And that's before you consider the many DC movies which didn't even make their budget and contrast that t
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The pedants are out in force today.
How about this version: They just have to turn a profit.
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No, it's not pedantic. You're fueling the common misconception that a movie is a success if its box office exceeds its budget. That's not correct. If you want to use the word profit, use the word profit, don't use the word costs they are very different things.
Calling it pedantic is stupid, it is the difference between passing and failing basic highschool accounting and absolutely fundamental to any discussion about making money in business.
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Their problem is a bit more fundamental than that.
For a start, actors leave roles. Sometimes it works to replace them, sometimes not. They wanted to have a big reboot with the up-coming Flash movie, so they could have new actors and new backstories and a new less grim tone. Problem is Ezra Miller, who plays Flash, went off the rails and it's not unclear if they can even release the thing.
On top of that it's not enough to just make a good movie these days. Their shareholders demand franchises with merchandis
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Let's replace "making something good" with "making something marketable". And we're back to where we need to be.
They have to produce something that can become a franchisable product. Something that, as you correctly identify, can branch out into games, a series, toys, sequels and so on. For that to take off, though, we're back at square one: Making something people want. You need to produce something there is a market for. You have to cater to a target audience, whether you like that or not.
I'm not exactly
Superman is the problem in the DC movies (Score:3)
** Spoilers ahead if you haven't seen Justice League **
As a standalone character, Superman works great. But when you put him alongside the rest of these guys, he's just too bloody strong. The villains either have to be laughably weak compared to him (if you want the other DC heroes to meaningfully contribute), or else you have to send him off somewhere so he's mysteriously unavailable when the bad stuff happens. Or you reduce everyone else to sidekick status while he fights someone like Darkseid.
I mean, look at (the Snyder Cut of) Justice League. All the other superheroes couldn't remotely cope with the main bad guy, so the bulk of the movie drama is just based around whether they can get Superman back to save the rest of them. There were some interesting individual scenes there, but overall I don't think that's what comic fans are looking for at all.
It's possible to work around this problem - I thought the animated Justice League did a pretty good job with it when they introduced Amazo, or when Grundy got (re?)resurrected - but that takes much better writing than anyone seems to want to devote to these movies.
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As a standalone character, Superman works great. But when you put him alongside the rest of these guys, he's just too bloody strong. The villains either have to be laughably weak compared to him (if you want the other DC heroes to meaningfully contribute), or else you have to send him off somewhere so he's mysteriously unavailable when the bad stuff happens. Or you reduce everyone else to sidekick status while he fights someone like Darkseid.
This is the problem with Marvel as well. They have to very careful
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Even on his own, Superman being so powerful is a problem. There isn't much that can threaten him, so every threat tends to boil down to one of two possibilities.
1. Someone gets hold of kryptonite, apparently one of the most abundant substances in the universe.
2. Someone threatens his family.
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Even on his own, Superman being so powerful is a problem. There isn't much that can threaten him, so every threat tends to boil down to one of two possibilities.
1. Someone gets hold of kryptonite, apparently one of the most abundant substances in the universe.
2. Someone threatens his family.
Flash is worse, his only power is super speed, and super speed basically means your opponent is helpless while you're running around doing stuff to them. In other words you can't lose.
This makes every Flash villain someone with super speed, or someone against whom Flash seemingly forgets to use his super speed.
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** Spoilers ahead if you haven't seen Justice League **
As a standalone character, Superman works great. But when you put him alongside the rest of these guys, he's just too bloody strong. The villains either have to be laughably weak compared to him (if you want the other DC heroes to meaningfully contribute), or else you have to send him off somewhere so he's mysteriously unavailable when the bad stuff happens. Or you reduce everyone else to sidekick status while he fights someone like Darkseid.
I mean, look at (the Snyder Cut of) Justice League. All the other superheroes couldn't remotely cope with the main bad guy, so the bulk of the movie drama is just based around whether they can get Superman back to save the rest of them. There were some interesting individual scenes there, but overall I don't think that's what comic fans are looking for at all.
It's possible to work around this problem - I thought the animated Justice League did a pretty good job with it when they introduced Amazo, or when Grundy got (re?)resurrected - but that takes much better writing than anyone seems to want to devote to these movies.
I think Marvel had the same problem in Avengers. You had space gods and guys who shot arrows on the same team. In that case you need to give them multiple levels of villains to fight.
And the drama behind having the one overpowered character can also be interesting, but you need good writing and directing to pull it off.
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All the other superheroes couldn't remotely cope with the main bad guy, so the bulk of the movie drama is just based around whether they can get Superman back to save the rest of them.
The way I remember the Snyder Cut (SPOILER ALERT), Superman may have beaten the shit out of Steppenwolf but was unable to separate the motherboxes relegated as a sidekick to Cyborg and Flash, Superman got disintegrated (like proper dead), and the day was saved by the Flash resetting time.
Are you talking about the Weedon cut? Because that was very much a Superman show.
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Superman can punch everything. His problem is figuring out what to punch.
Comic books are crap, and so are movies (Score:2, Interesting)
The closest the "mainstream" superhero movies ever came to something interesting was The Infinity War, where the supermorons lost half of the universe. A next movie where they come to terms with the loss and rebuild the world would have been interesting, but of course, the next movie just used the usual time travel
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I think the only "superman" movie that I liked was "Watchmen". And it's a pity, because there are so many interesting takes on the whole idea in the literature. For example, Brandon Sanderson's "Reckoners" universe would look awesome in a movie.
It's almost better when they don't make movies of good books anyway, one of my favorites was Ender's Game and oh my god they butchered the hell out of it, worse than any other book to movie translation I've seen. The main character lost the physical attributes that drove his character development, the connection to the aliens was totally incomprehensible in the movie because they butchered the giant skeleton narrative, and they lost all the dark parts - especially the kids fighting resulting in multiple de
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That's pretty much the same for many shows today. They end with the status ante reliably, with very few lasting changes. That's how series work. What's special about comics in this regard?
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If you look at it, in most comic books the heroes are actually trying to preserve the status quo. It's the villains that try to cause a change.
Makes you wonder who is the hero and who is the villain, if you think about it...
Yet another Batgirl article? (Score:1)
I really doubt many people are so rabid about Batgirl not being published to generate all this press, it really is starting to feel like a stealth marketing campaign to "save" the movie and get it more views than it otherwise would have deserved by people wanting to see how terrible something "cancelled" really is. Either that or the entertainment press is incredibly bored and has nothing more clickbaity to talk about at the moment. Obviously there are some loud mouth activists pushing the narrative for p
Re: Yet another Batgirl article? (Score:1, Troll)
The media establishment will of course come out against the cancelling of a film fronted by a black Hispanic bisexual woman and a transgender. Their worry is that Zaslav is seeking to refocus Warner as a for profit concern, moving away from ideological destruction of DC's greatest assets.
Zaslav is in for a tough ride. The overwhelmingly left wing media will want him gone. The last thing they want to see is shockingly non-diverse characters, the ones normal people worldwide like, returning to centre stage.
It's the Amber Turd Effect (Score:1)
Re: It's the Amber Turd Effect (Score:2)
Lol. Yeah I'm sure the entire world revolves around a bunch of incels and Depp fans who hate Amber Heard.
A vocal but very small minority doesn't really impact the bottom line.
But delivering movies written by fans of dystopian futures that don't appeal to those who have to live in them, that's a real issue. Wonder woman and aquaman were successful because they avoided the semi fascist tropes the DC universe is so fond off and delivered a movie that anyone could enjoy.
It had a few high points (Score:3)
Super heros don't make good movies (Score:2)
super directors turn super hero movies into fenominal movies.
Just take a look at the Batman movies.
Hopefully so! (Score:1)
Calling them 'movies' is a stretch (Score:2)
It's a live comic-strip re-enactment.
Deus Ex Machina is ... (Score:2)
... lazy storytelling and gets old fast. And contemporary superhero movies are little more than Deus Ex Machina amped by modern SFX and big budgets.
For me the Era of good mainstream superhero movies started with the first XMen movie with Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. Watching that was a revelation, a true first. A big budget A-list movie that built a somewhat plausible superhero world and took it seriously. A breakthrough revolution. Bryan Singer was on my radar before that, but XMen moved him into my shortl
They just arenâ(TM)t watchable. (Score:3)
Batman is a great character. Superman is⦠well⦠Superman. Aquaman? Itâ(TM)s like the cringy backstory from Entourage made real. Jason did well with the character but the rest of it was like watching a sea monkeys ad. Wonder Woman had characters who showed some depth. The Batman needed to pick up the pace and make a 90-min cut. Give us good actors, personalities that make us think, and for peteâ(TM)s sake wink at the audience. We know weâ(TM)re watching a comic book production that cost as much as a 747. Acknowledge that. Marvel has this down pat. Itâ(TM)s like Pixar vs other animation studios: put good character actors behind the toons and we wonâ(TM)t care what their names are. The golly-guys-I'm-still learning-my-superhero-ways schtick hits for Spiderman, it just falls flat for Flash. Black Widow interrogation phone call scene? Yes, itâ(TM)s a throwaway, but give me something at least that good in each DC movie and weâ(TM)ll talk.
I mean, "yeah" (Score:2)
The DC movies have been subpar.
The CGI is typically very distracting in the DC movies. And the movies usually jump straight into a fantasy world. So we don't get real world grounding that we get in marvel movies. (nowadays it's pretty much fantasy, but teh earlier movies grounded the universe)
When you couple that with the fact that justice league was pretty bad and that two of the followup movies may be cancelled (flash and batgirl). Yeah, it seems like they are pretty screwed!
Let the comic book franchises die in peace (Score:2)
What's wrong with Hollywood (Score:2)
That's not a question. What's going on with DC is just a symptom of a larger disease. There are far too many movies out there that are dark, don't have a happy ending, or whose scope is really small and/or confined. An example of the last of that list is the forthcoming movie "Fall". Two extreme climbers decide to climb this super tall rusting antenna tower and get stuck up on the top when the ladder breaks off. Do people really want to watch these two characters stuck up on a tower for 90-120 minutes?
No, better than ever (Score:2)
Warner executives became best known as cautionary tales. Whenever you make a business decision, ask yourself whether this something a Warner executive would do? Don't do the opposite of what a Warner executive would do - simply don't do what you think they would do.
The Matrix sequel, Birds of Prey, the Wonder Woman sequel, and Batgirl. Firing Depp while keeping Miller on long after it became clear he is very wrong in the head. Heard, we CD even when the most charitable take was to view her as being just as
I don't understand (Score:2)
Weren't Flash and Arrow firmly established on TV for a fair chunk of time? I mean they had a goofy guy to play Flash, and I rarely (if ever) watch TV but the little bit I caught was pretty good. Arrow was a bit darker, but even that seemed fairly successful. In fact most of the series did well (I think) except for Legends and the
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I've had a life-long distaste for DC's characters aside from Captain Marvel/Shazam, but I'm a comic fans and I do feel it's important to support comic book movies and TV shows.
Snyder could not have been more wrong for Superman. He doesn't understand the character at all, and that fundamental misunderstanding tainted every project under his influence. Maybe he could've made an interesting Batman movie with some kind of Frank Miller pastiche, but he was the wrong man for the job from the start for everything
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I loved Affleck in The Accountant [wikipedia.org]. I totally identified with his character (although I am not an accountant). I felt like it was a movie about my life, but with more action.
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I totally identified with his character (although I am not an accountant). I felt like it was a movie about my life, but with more action.
So you're a heavily autistic skilled assassin with a flair for numbers, but without being a skilled assassin and without a flair for numbers?
#selfown
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The thing that bothers me in the Pattinson movie is that the man can barely move with his costume on. He's not a nimble master of martial arts. In the scenes where he's speaking, he barely moves.
Bring back the Adam West-style costume!
Re: Ben Affleck (Score:2)
The greatest tragedy of Snyder's noir Supernan is Henry Cavill. He had all the makings of a great Supernan, ruined by Snyder wanting everything to be grimdark. For Batman, fine, although I'd prefer to see Batman get back to street level work. He's just not a good fit for battling alien super fiends.
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Here's the thing, you can totally do a dark Superman movie. The catch is, you have terrible, dark stuff happening around Superman and have Supes be the relentless beacon of hope all while showing the emotional toll it's taking on Kal El, the person. But that's the sort of thing that requires vision and an understanding of the character; two things that Snyder lacks.
Re: Ben Affleck (Score:2)
Brilliant. Yeah, that would work so well.
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Re: Ben Affleck (Score:2)
Cheers. I hadn't read the run.
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The thing that bothers me in the Pattinson movie is that the man can barely move with his costume on. He's not a nimble master of martial arts. In the scenes where he's speaking, he barely moves. I like that he was played up as a detective and less as a fighter though.
Both me and my brother agreed that the movie would have been much better if Batman had at least attempted to dodge a single bullet rather than walking headlong into every round.
Re: Ben Affleck (Score:2)
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The Batman movies have gone in cycles. Batman and Batman Returns were excellent then Warner decided things were "too dark" and made Batman Forever and Batman & Robbin which both sucked (whichever idiot decided that George Clooney should be cast as Batman needs to be locked up in a cell at Arkham...)
Then they did the Dark Knight movies which were excellent. Everything after that has been crap (although to be fair I didn't see the new Batman movie so I don't know if its any good)
If they want to do more wi
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New Batman movie supports your cycle, I guess. It was ok, not near as good as the Dark Knight trilogy but way better than the Ben Affleck crap.
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As someone who loves Batman, I couldn't get myself to watch Ben Affleck as Batman. It's just a bad casting. Then everyone who saw Batman vs. Superman said it was awful, so why would I bother?
I'd agree with a caveat.
Christian Dale redefined Batman the movie character.
And Ben Affleck is a very different different kind of actor from Christian Dale, meaning he was going to have to be a very different Batman, so they needed to give him a standalone film to introduce, build, and justify his version of the character.
Instead they threw him into an ensemble with Batman vs. Superman, meaning everyone was expecting Christian Dale's Batman which Affleck obviously wasn't, hence, bad casting.
I do wonder what
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Despite the flaws, particularly in the third installment, the Nolan-Bale Trilogy is for me the definitive Batman. They nailed the atmosphere and zeitgeist of Batman. But that was a different decade.
(Almost) all superhero movies look the same. (Score:2, Interesting)