Ukraine's Astronomers Say There Are Tons of UFOs Over Kyiv (vice.com) 283
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Ukraine's airspace has been busy this year -- that's the nature of war. But scientists in the country are looking to the skies and seeing something they didn't expect: An inordinate number of UFOs, according to a new preprint paper published (PDF) by Kyiv's Main Astronomical Observatory in coordination with the country's National Academy of Science. The paper does not specifically address the war, but in the United States, the Pentagon has long hinted, speculated, and warned that some UFOs could be advanced technology from foreign militaries, specifically China and Russia (though it hasn't really given any evidence this is actually the case). The Ukraine paper is particularly notable because it not only shows that science has continued to occur during the war, but also explains that there have been a lot of sightings. "We see them everywhere," the research said. "We observe a significant number of objects whose nature is not clear."
The paper is titled Unidentified aerial phenomena I. Observations of events come from observations made at NAS' Main Astronomical Observatory in Kyiv and a village south of Kyiv called Vinarivka. According to the paper's authors, the observatories took on the job of hunting for UFO's as an independent project because of the enthusiasm around the subject. It describes a specific type of UFO the researchers call "phantoms" that is an "object [that] is a completely black body that does not emit and absorbs all the radiation falling on it." The researchers also observed that the UFOs it's seeing are so fast that it's hard to take pictures of them. "The eye does not fix phenomena lasting less than one-tenth of a second," the paper said. "It takes four-tenths of a second to recognize an event. Ordinary photo and video recordings will also not capture the [unidentified aerial phenomenon]. To detect UAP, you need to fine-tune the equipment: shutter speed, frame rate, and dynamic range."
So the researchers did just that using two meteor monitoring stations in Kyiv and Vinarivka. "We have developed a special observation technique, taking into account the high speeds of the observed objects," the paper said. "The exposure time was chosen so that the image of the object did not shift significantly during exposure. The frame rate was chosen to take into account the speed of the object and the field of view of the camera. In practice, the exposure time was less than 1 ms, and the frame rate was no less than 50 Hz." The scientists divided the phenomenon they observed into two different categories: cosmics and phantoms. "We note that Cosmics are luminous objects, brighter than the background of the sky. We call these ships names of birds (swift, falcon, eagle)," the paper said. "Phantoms are dark objects, with contrast from several to about 50 percent."
Using the cameras, stationed roughly 75 miles apart, allowed the scientists to make repeated observations of strange objects moving in the sky. The paper didn't speculate on what the objects were, merely noted the observations and mentioned the objects' incredible speeds. "Flights of single, group and squadrons of the ships were detected, moving at speeds from 3 to 15 degrees per second," the research said. "Phantoms are observed in the troposphere at distances up to 10 -- 12 km. We estimate their size from 3 to 12 meters and speeds up to 15 km/s." The easy explanation would be that these are missiles, or rockets, or something else associated with the war. But the scientists insist that their nature "is not clear."
The paper is titled Unidentified aerial phenomena I. Observations of events come from observations made at NAS' Main Astronomical Observatory in Kyiv and a village south of Kyiv called Vinarivka. According to the paper's authors, the observatories took on the job of hunting for UFO's as an independent project because of the enthusiasm around the subject. It describes a specific type of UFO the researchers call "phantoms" that is an "object [that] is a completely black body that does not emit and absorbs all the radiation falling on it." The researchers also observed that the UFOs it's seeing are so fast that it's hard to take pictures of them. "The eye does not fix phenomena lasting less than one-tenth of a second," the paper said. "It takes four-tenths of a second to recognize an event. Ordinary photo and video recordings will also not capture the [unidentified aerial phenomenon]. To detect UAP, you need to fine-tune the equipment: shutter speed, frame rate, and dynamic range."
So the researchers did just that using two meteor monitoring stations in Kyiv and Vinarivka. "We have developed a special observation technique, taking into account the high speeds of the observed objects," the paper said. "The exposure time was chosen so that the image of the object did not shift significantly during exposure. The frame rate was chosen to take into account the speed of the object and the field of view of the camera. In practice, the exposure time was less than 1 ms, and the frame rate was no less than 50 Hz." The scientists divided the phenomenon they observed into two different categories: cosmics and phantoms. "We note that Cosmics are luminous objects, brighter than the background of the sky. We call these ships names of birds (swift, falcon, eagle)," the paper said. "Phantoms are dark objects, with contrast from several to about 50 percent."
Using the cameras, stationed roughly 75 miles apart, allowed the scientists to make repeated observations of strange objects moving in the sky. The paper didn't speculate on what the objects were, merely noted the observations and mentioned the objects' incredible speeds. "Flights of single, group and squadrons of the ships were detected, moving at speeds from 3 to 15 degrees per second," the research said. "Phantoms are observed in the troposphere at distances up to 10 -- 12 km. We estimate their size from 3 to 12 meters and speeds up to 15 km/s." The easy explanation would be that these are missiles, or rockets, or something else associated with the war. But the scientists insist that their nature "is not clear."
This is fake news (Score:2, Informative)
Not unexpected [Re:This is fake news] (Score:2)
It's not fake news, but it's really not news at all.
definition of UFO = Flying object that you can't identify.
Yeah, in the middle of a serious shooting war, there will be a lot of stuff flying around (and without submitting flight plans or talking to the tower). If you don't recognize it... yep, it's a UFO by definition.
Re: This is fake news (Score:2)
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Just because a technology is secret doesn't mean it's advanced.
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Just because a technology is secret doesn't mean it's advanced.
If it wasn't advanced then why keep it a secret? If your adversaries all have the same technology then there's not much point in being secretive about possessing the technology. I guess there's a possibility in which adversaries developed the same technology independently but remain ignorant the others also developed this technology. But then if there is a technology that one side developed then they'd be able to recognize that technology fairly quickly when used by an adversary, they'd recognize it bec
Re: This is fake news (Score:5, Funny)
Just because a technology is secret doesn't mean it's advanced.
If it wasn't advanced then why keep it a secret? If your adversaries all have the same technology then there's not much point in being secretive about possessing the technology.
Because sometimes obfuscation is a tactical advantage to game systems. For example you kept it secret that you use several accounts to force your repetitive posts into a higher moderation than they deserve. This is how you gain a strategic edge over others.
Everyone else here possesses the same "technology" however they use it in different ways. Were we to posit a suitable meaning for UAP in this context it could mean "Unidentified Asshole Posting" as opposed to "Uniquely Assigned Pseudonym" like the rest of us.
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For example you kept it secret that you use several accounts to force your repetitive posts into a higher moderation than they deserve. This is how you gain a strategic edge over others.
I'm posting under "several" accounts? Just how many accounts do you believe I have? Can you name them? To what end does it serve to have these accounts? The end you give is higher moderation than my posts deserve but what end does that serve? Have you considered that there's a simpler explanation for the higher moderation than multiple accounts? That people believe I make insightful commentary and reward that with moderation points?
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If it wasn't advanced then why keep it a secret?
Not everything is binary in terms of secrets. For example, stealth aircraft like the F/A-117 are known to exist to the public. That does not mean everything about them is public knowledge like the paint used. The paint could be a highly advanced formulation or a simple one.
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For some reason (Score:4, Funny)
The only evidence available will be a smudgy xerox of a grainy photo of a grainy photo of a contact print of a grainy photo. At least one of which will have been underdeveloped or overexposed and another the reverse.
It's traditional.
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As noted in the summary, high quality photography is difficult due to their sheer speed. 15 km/s is way above the escape velocity from earth.
Re:For some reason (Score:4, Informative)
15 km/s is way above the escape velocity from earth
I mean I wouldn't call it "WAY" above as escape velocity is 11.2 km/s (assumptions of non-rotating body, perfectly spherical cows, etc...). But I mean, po-tay-to, po-tah-to.
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you just said you thought military planes maneuvering in lower atmosphere could do 50% over escape velocity, a speed that even specialized craft can barely reach and frequently detonate towards reaching while doing a straight line
maybe it's time to stop googling numbers
Re:For some reason (Score:5, Informative)
According to TFA, they are going 15 km/s at an altitude of 10-12 km.
There is no airframe that could survive that for more than a few seconds.
Re:For some reason (Score:4, Funny)
Aliens are naturally small and very blurry in nature, its the only explanation that makes sense...
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The only evidence available will be a smudgy xerox of a grainy photo of a grainy photo of a contact print of a grainy photo.
Yep you said it, they're all steeped in tradition. Photos of UFOs, Big Foot, Nessie are all the same quality from the Kodak Brownie to the latest most expensive digital camera.
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Re: For some reason (Score:5, Interesting)
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Unless the "aliens" like a good war for the Action, the Drama, the Tragedy!!! if plays better than Hollywood and the cast of characters is always changing because they are mortals who are getting killed!
It sells itself, and we thought the "aliens" were "angels" lol
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Exactly, there aren't likely any more flying saucers over Ukraine but there sure are lots of air assets from both armies and all the nearby intelligence services zipping around.
That's exactly what the aliens want you to think. They're too cunning for us. Our only hope is to pre-surrender.
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No, you are missing a very important point:
Fact: they tracked the objects covering a span of the sky from 3-15 degrees per second.
That's all they have for facts. They *think* the objects are 3-12 meters in length. They *imagine* that they are at 10-12 km altitude. Those are not facts. So any "speed" attributed to these "objects" is based on those assumptions.
Any UFO related article - you need to read between the lines. And keep some healthy skepticism.
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It occurred to me last night:
Either aliens cryptids, and all sorts of odd supernatural things are real; there is something out there, in this dimension or the next which wants us to think they are real, or appear as such to us; or there was something historic and evolutionary which causes these very specific fantasies to manifest in our minds, collectively.
You're walking along and you hear some leaves rustle. It's probably wind, or maybe a squirrel, but it could be a tiger.
The chance that it's a tiger is tiny.... but on the rare occasions were it was a tiger the people who assumed so were the ones who didn't get eaten.
We evolved to assign agents to unexplained events. Gods, goblins, and aliens are just some of the ways that manifests.
Re: For some reason (Score:4, Interesting)
I say it's magical leprechauns dancing in the sky. And such magical creatures surely would possess the magic to prevent us from recording decisive evidence about their existence.
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I say it's magical leprechauns dancing in the sky. And such magical creatures surely would possess the magic to prevent us from recording decisive evidence about their existence.
They prefer to be called "Sprites".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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They prefer to be called "Sprites".
Unfortunately the Coca-Cola Company sued them for using the name without permission.
Inordinate number of UFOs (Score:5, Funny)
As opposed to a normal number of UFOs?
Re:Inordinate number of UFOs (Score:5, Interesting)
An "inordinate" number of probable alien spacecraft would be one or more. But as for UFOs, they're common as dirt. UAP is actually a better term for them because that they are (a) and object and (b) flying are each very big assumptions. I've seen meteor showers which, if you didn't understand what you were looking at, would convince most people they were looking at gravity-defying UFOs.
In this case we have two independent sequences of observations that can be correlated and which can't be categorized by professional astronomers. That's pretty unusual, so again inordinate for that would be 1 or more. That's interesting. 15 km/s something like Mach 43; it's roughly the same order of magnitude but somewhat larger than orbital vehicle reentry. If we allow for error bars and what not, I'd say we're looking at something like that -- a IRBM reentry vehicle, possibly a hypersonic reentry vehicle.
"Hypersonic" is not necessarily that exotic; the Kh-47M2 Kinzhal "hypersonic" missile is simply an air-launched SRBM. If these things aren't correlated with missile attacks, they may be some kind of hypersonic boost-glide spy vehicle.
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That's a pretty crazy and expensive stretch.
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Dude mentions plausible explanations including existing military technology in use by one of the belligerents, but no, it's aliens.
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Dude mentions plausible explanations including existing military technology in use by one of the belligerents, but no, it's aliens.
That's exactly what an alien would say... Where were you that night Mr DamnOregonian?
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Re: Inordinate number of UFOs (Score:2)
Drones don't fly 15km/s
Re: Inordinate number of UFOs (Score:4, Interesting)
15 km/s isn't so much flying as drilling through the atmosphere.
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True, but how do we know they flew 15km/s? Reflections off of clouds or atmospheric layers can appear to move at impossible speeds. "But an article on the internet said 15km/s, I assumed these astronomers got out their equipment and measured it! Since they declared that it absorbed all radiation they must have special instruments that told them this and they object stayed still long enough for them to use the instruments and verify this across all known radiation bands!"
The accurate part is the "unidenti
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If an object 'absorbed all radiation', it means that it didn't show up on radar, which means that it didn't actually exist.
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Now if only we could figure out who has a massive stockpile of aging Scud variants.
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this is a terrible time to be a UFO enthusiast.
When was it ever a good time to be a UFO enthusiast? Are there desirable periods to be taken for a nutjob?
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Are there desirable periods to be taken for a nutjob?
Burning man?
People are looking more, so they see more. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Hi chance of getting disclosed though. Defenses are up and cameras are rolling.
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Re:People are looking more, so they see more. (Score:5, Informative)
They might just be careful (Score:5, Interesting)
Robin Hanson has a carefully considered, interesting take on this. Aliens may have compelling reasons to allow us to continue to exist and also to prevent us from becoming interstellar or growing beyond some local boundary of territory or tech (otherwise why would they bother us at all?). It is very likely that they are so alien that we would reject them outright as disgusting enemies if they were to simply land and start talking to us, no matter how politely they did so (after all, we kill each other over cultural differences between ourselves all the time). So their best bet at convincing us to cooperate is to keep us at "arm's length" and slowly, consistently, and peacefully demonstrate their superior power such that they don't cause inordinate fighting amongst us or a violent reaction against them.
Just as befriending a wild horse starts with acclimating it to our presence in non-threatening ways, they may be doing the same thing right now showing us that they're around, but also not threatening and not vulnerable to us. Or maybe it's just alien teenagers out for a joy ride and they'll mop us up later once they're bored.
Re: They might just be careful (Score:2)
They're just war tourists watching the monkeys beat each other with more and more lethal sticks.
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Literally none of this is knowable, which is why it's the realm of science fiction and not science. Barring actual evidence and study, we can speculate all day, but with a sample size of 1 (planet) you can't really make any useful predictions. The safest assumptions are what you said, but no assumptions are really safe when you have no experience.
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The numbers are just too big. For instance, most people have seen ants before, but the odds that a particular ant somewhere will ever be seen by people is almost zero. In this analogy, Earth is a particular ant.
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The most outlandish interpretation with any shot at being true is advanced drone prototypes. And even that demands a few assumptions.
Re: People are looking more, so they see more. (Score:2)
I think you forget how biology is capable of creating amazing things with its machinery.
Bioluminescence, poisons, or the idea of Consciousness itself.
I'd almost propse the idea that if some phenomenon that allows this type of travel existed, something biological would likely be capable of doing it well before it could be synthesized mechanically by some type of machine.
Never underestimate what biology can come up with to solve problems.
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Who are the "they" you are talking about?
You say they are not extraterrestrial, but are they human? Did you claim they were "alien"? Alien can mean many things. Who do they work for or answer to? Are they a government organization? Do they have any organization? By "organization" I mean do they coordinate their activities among themselves in any way? If they have this advanced technology that they don't understand and cannot recreate then presumably this technology has been handed down over time. Or
Dammit (Score:3)
Dammit. Now I want to have a really good, really close UFO encounter.
Thanks. Thanks a lot people.
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Dammit. Now I want to have a really good, really close UFO encounter.
of the third kind, perchance?
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Careful what you wish for. They're really rapey.
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but RegiSu is really lonely
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I was gonna say be careful what you ask for, someone might throw a rock at you.
If you don't find the rock after, you were injured by a UFO
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Nonsense (Score:5, Interesting)
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I see someone is working hard to dissuade us of UFO existence.
I wonder why, hmmm?
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Saying that the phenomenon don't exist because you haven't seen photographic evidence is like taking a table spoon of water from the ocean and saying that fish don't exist.
Same standards we use for ghosts, vampires and werewolves. Maybe the ocean is full of them too, but I doubt it.
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Re: Nonsense (Score:2)
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I expect that it's less about the mere lack of photographic evidence that they have personally seen and more like the lack of any evidence to support it which can actually be trusted.
The analogy to ghosts, vampires, and werewolves made elsewhere holds. We accept the scientifically justifiable premise that they do not exist because we do not actually have evidence to substantiated their existence. Like UFO's, all we actually have in the end are stories.
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So far every "UFO" video has been debunked with simple explanations
You are behind the times. We now have official videos [cnbc.com] released by US Air Force with a statement that UFO sightings are to be reported. UFOs are no longer uncool nor unreal.
As far as videos being debunked, a lot of those "explanations" have also been debunked. (Except the obvious fakes and lens artifacts of course)
Of course they are to be reported, why wouldn't they. There's a stigma against seeing weird things we don't understand, that doesn't mean they weren't supposed to be reported by pilots before.
It also doesn't mean super-duper advanced technology or fucking aliens. The only difference now is stealth drones are a real possibility. Maybe some advanced ECM. There are hypersonic glide weapons flying over Ukraine, do you know what that looks like? Probably all kinds of weird stuff being used for reconnaissan
Astronomers? (Score:3)
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Except that the authors here are astronomers,
https://arxiv.org/abs/2208.112... [arxiv.org]
Re:Astronomers? (Score:4, Insightful)
And their instruments intended to look at objects millions of light years away are able to discern activity in the atmosphere clearly enough to conclude such astounding claims as "absorbs all radiation"? At this point, you wait for the experiments to be proposed, conducted, and replicated. Otherwise jumping to conclusions is premature (ok, sure, it's super advanced soviet era technology, the same tech that allowed their tractors to operate an entire week before breaking down in some cases).
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And their instruments intended to look at objects millions of light years away are able to discern activity in the atmosphere clearly enough to conclude
JWST enters the chat.
See those pics of the earliest galaxies? Then those images of Jupiter?
war (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't forget that we're in the middle of a war and anything that gets attention is good. The primary risk for the Ukraine is that the West loses interest. As soon as that happens, they're toast. In light of that - is there real science going on, or propaganda? UFO stuff already isn't the pinnacle of science, you know?
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How many decades did it take for the west to lose interest in Afghanistan? They're not going to "lose interest" after 6 months now that war is in Europe.
And if they did feel the need to rally their citizens in support of the war, they have way more effective talking points than UFOs.
Perhaps people are just curious about the things they see in the sky. That's a lot less of a stretch to me than it being some kind of piss-poor attempt at warmongering, which they don't even need to do, given the high level of s
Radio telescope intercepted this (Score:3)
"This is News Saucer 4726.3 bringing you the latest from these crazy humans..."
First thoughts, Likely our own trash raining down (Score:4, Interesting)
It was reported in recent years that China blew up a satellite with a ground missile that had horrible side effects causing collateral damage with other satellites. These things also have heat shields and exotic fuels. No telling what all have certain radioactive elements. Not to mention over 70 years of trash in orbit, from screws to shards of solar panel glass. All this mess raining down, and at the upper atmosphere of course the pieces will be bigger, then "suddenly disappear" as some burn up. And I bet various debris made out of old heat shield raining down probably looks really weird as it's odd shape will have it twisting and changing directions like crazy. At least that's the first thoughts I have.
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If there's anything up there... (Score:2)
If there's anything up there, I tend to think it might be some kind of unknown electrical phenomenon. Some UFOs might be a type of lightning that hasn't been described yet. That would explain why they've been around since ancient times. Others might be caused by RADAR or other types of electro-magnetic systems used in the military. That would explain the increase in modern times.
What? Unpossible! (Score:2)
Unidentified flying objects over an area where a war is going on? Now that's unheard of.
Show me a working spacecraft, dammit. (Score:2)
Can't trust sworn statements. Can't trust the government. Can't trust the loonies broadcasting from converted minibuses.
And you cannot trust video. Not one bit, not ever. If your "proof" is hosted on Youtube, go fuck yourself.
Not only did that ship already sail, it sunk just over the horizon.
Slashdot Astronomers say there is tons of crack-co (Score:2)
... over Vice editing boards.
Reproduce the study (Score:2)
The stations are equipped with ASI 178 MC and ASI 294 Pro CCD cameras, and Computar lenses with a focal length of 6 mm. The SharpCap 4.0 program was used for data recording.
which is common equipment (sub $1000) used by amateur astronomers for both meteor detection and also imaging celestial objects: stars, planets, galaxies, etc.
It seems to me that it would not be outside the bounds of amateur science to perform the same experiments, though maybe not in a war zone.
Wartime seems to increase sightings/encounters (Score:2)
In WWII American pilots called them "foo fighters". Pretty sure sightings happened in 'Nam as well, and possibly in other conflicts. It seems like putting more people on the ground and in the air in combat or combat-related roles makes them, you know, see things?
You can interpret this phenomenon in any number of ways, but it should come as no surprise that Ukrainians are seeing a lot of unusual activity in their skies.
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You can look at this a number of ways:
1) Pilots are as susceptable as anyone else to visual illusions
2) Even in WW2 secret craft were being flown by both sides (though I suspect anything like that would have come out by now if not from the USA/UK then certainly the Germans)
3) Human war is a spectator sport for alien intelligence(s).
Personally I'd go for 1.
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Pretty much. 1) is the least-fun option, but you won't wind up looking too nutty if you pick it.
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In WWII American pilots called them "foo fighters".
No, these are not "foo fighters". How do I know that? Because a foo fighter is something seen to follow an aircraft. These new sightings are observations from astronomers, people that are presumably on the ground and stationary. If it is not following an aircraft then it is not a foo fighter.
There has been a handful of explanations for this phenomenon. It could be static buildup from the aircraft moving through the air creating a kind of tiny lightning storm that follows the aircraft. It could be a va
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https://military-history.fando... [fandom.com]
That's too narrow a definition, and it isn't a fair representation of how the term was actually used.
Typo (Score:2)
Should be lots of UFM.
Unidentified Flying MIGs.
Like Spectators at a Boxing Match (Score:2)
The bad news is that they are just like us.
I mean (Score:2)
I know these are flying objects. I know they're not identified.
Calling unknown military aircraft in an active theater of war "UFOs" is actively stupid to the point of being embarrassing.
Jesus fuck, Slashdot.
Now they are weighing UFOs??? (Score:2)
So they are seeing "tons" of UFOs? I suppose that's a safe estimate, since a single aircraft generally weighs tons.
UROs (Score:2)
Those are UROs.
(Unidentified Russian Objects)
Re:An inordinate amount of hate on UAPs these days (Score:4, Funny)
Must be the aliens themselves, posting from their sockpuppet accounts - it's the only explanation.