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Television Canada United States

Meet DTV's Successor: NextGen TV (cnet.com) 135

Around 2009 Slashdot was abuzz about how over-the-air broadcasting in North America was switching to a new standard called DTV. (Fun fact: North America and South America have two entirely different broadcast TV standards — both of which are different from the DVB-T standard used in Europe/Africa/Australia.) But 2022 ends with us already talking about DTV's successor in North America: the new broadcast standard NextGen TV.

This time the new standard isn't mandatory for TV stations, CNET points out — and it won't affect cable, satellite or streaming TV. But now even if you're not paying for a streaming TV service, another article points out, in most major American cities "an inexpensive antenna is all you'll need to get get ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC and PBS stations" — and often with a better picture quality: NextGen TV, formerly known as ATSC 3.0, is continuing to roll out across the U.S. It's already widely available, with stations throughout the country broadcasting in the new standard. There are many new TVs with compatible tuners plus several stand-alone tuners to add NextGen to just about any TV. As the name suggests, NextGen TV is the next generation of over-the-air broadcasts, replacing or supplementing the free HD broadcasts we've had for over two decades. NextGen not only improves on HDTV, but adds the potential for new features like free over-the-air 4K and HDR, though those aren't yet widely available.

Even so, the image quality with NextGen is likely better than what you're used to from streaming or even cable/satellite. If you already have an antenna and watch HD broadcasts, the reception you get with NextGen might be better, too.... Because of how it works, you'll likely get better reception if you're far from the TV tower.

The short version is: NextGen is free over-the-air television with potentially more channels and better image quality than older over-the-air broadcasts.

U.S. broadcast companies have also created a site at WatchNextGenTV.com showing options for purchasing a compatible new TV. That site also features a video touting NextGen TV's "brilliant colors and a sharper picture with a wider range of contrast" and its Dolby audio system (with "immersive, movie theatre-quality sound" with enhancements for voice and dialogue "so you get all of the story.") And in the video there's also examples of upcoming interactive features like on-screen quizzes, voting, and shopping, as well as the ability to select multiple camera angles or different audio tracks.

"One potential downside? ATSC 3.0 will also let broadcasters track your viewing habits," CNet reported earlier this year, calling the data "information that can be used for targeted advertising, just like companies such as Facebook and Google use today...

"Ads specific to your viewing habits, income level and even ethnicity (presumed by your neighborhood, for example) could get slotted in by your local station.... but here's the thing: If your TV is connected to the internet, it's already tracking you. Pretty much every app, streaming service, smart TV and cable or satellite box all track your usage to a greater or lesser extent."

But on the plus side... NextGen TV is IP-based, so in practice it can be moved around your home just like any internet content can right now. For example, you connect an antenna to a tuner box inside your home, but that box is not connected to your TV at all. Instead, it's connected to your router. This means anything with access to your network can have access to over-the-air TV, be it your TV, your phone, your tablet or even a streaming device like Apple TV....

This also means it's possible we'll see mobile devices with built-in tuners, so you can watch live TV while you're out and about, like you can with Netflix and YouTube now. How willing phone companies will be to put tuners in their phones remains to be seen, however. You don't see a lot of phones that can get radio broadcasts now, even though such a thing is easy to implement.

But whatever you think — it's already here. By August NextGen TV was already reaching half of America's population, according to a press release from a U.S. broadcaster's coalition. That press release also bragged that 40% of consumers had actually heard of NextGen TV — "up 25% from last year among those in markets where it is available."
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Meet DTV's Successor: NextGen TV

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  • bugs (Score:5, Funny)

    by cstacy ( 534252 ) on Monday December 05, 2022 @04:18AM (#63103372)

    And in the video there's also examples of upcoming interactive features like on-screen quizzes, voting, and shopping, as well as the ability to select multiple camera angles or different audio tracks.

    WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

    • Re:bugs (Score:5, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Monday December 05, 2022 @06:17AM (#63103526)

      Multiple camera angles? Like the thing no one ever used on DVD?

      • Sometimes a presenter's face is so ugly you've got to switch to the behind-the-back camera angle.

        Seriously, it might be kind of useful for some sports for some people. Maybe somebody wants to watch a full field view all the time instead of closeups.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Do they still do multiple cameras for sports? I remember some time ago Sky (UK satellite broadcaster) was touting the ability to select a camera in their Formula 1 coverage. You could have the normal edited feed, or you could watch one of two car mounted cameras to get a driver's eye view.

        I don't know if they still do it. Probably didn't prove very popular.

        • I imagine it depends on the sport - at least here in the US for football, basketball, and baseball there are many cameras about the stadium on both collegiate and professional levels for broadcasting the games.

      • This will only EVER be used for ads.
        Anything useful you can think of will not exist.
        • PBS's music and travel programs should benefit quite a bit from the improved video and audio capabilities of ATSC 3.0, without the ads.

          Or will it allow PBS to find new ways to pester viewers about fundraising? Hmm....

          • Or will it allow PBS to find new ways to pester viewers about fundraising? Hmm....

            This. I would put money on this.

      • I agree it's not very useful. In Saturday's goal for the USA it's interesting to have the option though... https://www.srf.ch/sport/resul... [www.srf.ch]
        • I agree it's not very useful. In Saturday's goal for the USA it's interesting to have the option though... https://www.srf.ch/sport/resul... [www.srf.ch]

          he says, linking to where he has the option :-)

          The issue here is that this works well in replay. Few people are going to sit and flip through different angles while the game is on, and precisely no broadcaster is going to give you the option of not playing ads while they reset the ball.

          In this case an internet stream is a far more watcher friendly option.

      • All content is not created equal. Having the ability to see multiple camera views during a sports broadcast would be awesome.

    • Wish I had mod points, that had me laughing out loud.

      Thanks for that.

    • on-screen quizzes just text quiz-con at $0.99 per text and you may be an winner!

  • by bsdetector101 ( 6345122 ) on Monday December 05, 2022 @04:24AM (#63103382)
    There are two main issues with ATSC 3.0 in the US. The first is the lack of coverage in some of the country's biggest TV markets, including San Francisco, Chicago and New York City. The second is a lack of content. If you want to watch next-gen TV broadcasts another option is to get an external tuner, which can connect to any TV. Currently they're rare, although a couple OTA DVRs do exist. $200-300. Or buy a new compatible TV that will tattle on you. $$$$$. I live too far out to get the current OTV signal and highly doubt I would get the new ATSC 3.0 signal. ALL that aside, I couldn't name a single current TV show on ABC, CBS, NBC, TBS or FOX right now. Quit watching their crap over 15 years ago and cut off DishTV then also. Right now I watch shows w/o commercials and never plan to.
    • Also, the fact that, thanks to the way HDCP was implemented on 99% of display devices, switching modes (eg, 1080p60 to 2160p24 to 1080p120) is clumsy & takes 2-3 seconds, so networks are going to be loath to take advantage of its biggest nominal selling point for consumers. They're still going to force everything into a single one-size-fits-nobody bit-starved box, like nominal 1080p30 at 4kbps.

      The FCC's idea of competing channels sharing broadcast transport streams is delusional. It might work somewhere

      • by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) on Monday December 05, 2022 @02:37PM (#63104900) Journal

        There is another even bigger barrier to adoption of ATSC 3.0 - the fact that it uses Dolby AC4 audio that is license-encumbered and essentially forbids you from writing your own code to use it - you must license from Dolby, and then use the Dolby written code. ffmpeg has a branch with some AC4 support in it, but anyone that doesn't want to get sued by Dolby Labs dares not include that in a commercial product for fear of being sued into non-existence.

        There are a few devices out there that have stepped up to the licensing plate (Sony TVs are one, NVIDIA Shield TV is another from what I've read) but everything else is either a hacky reverse-engineered implementation of AC4 that only sorta works, or they are waiting for the lawyers to get done doing their thing before they can implement it (Plex DVR specifically for at least a year now, there may be others)

        So yeah, the ATSC 3.0 rollout is being severely slowed down due to making poor decisions on what IP to include in the standard, and just how much submarine patent bullshit that device manufacturers are willing to put up with.

    • by k6mfw ( 1182893 )

      I've somewhat followed ATSC 3.0, mostly watching what Tyler the Antenna Man on YT has presented. However, considering while I have cut the cord with CATV but still with Comcast for internet, I rarely watch OTA TV. It is relentless with commercials every five minutes. The new shows simply don't interest me at all, I'm an old guy who has seen enough reruns to last me a lifetime (exception of series made after 1980 which none of those interest me), local news broadcasts might be of interest but online more con

  • by freddienumber13 ( 1793526 ) on Monday December 05, 2022 @04:31AM (#63103388)

    The FAQ (OMG, I RTFA & FAQ!) states that NextGen TV is aimed to provide an enhanced experience for live events, such as sports & news. What if I don't care about that "enhanced" experience? What if my NextGen TV thing cannot access the Internet - will I stop being able to watch FTA TV?

    While the story touts having a single device per house for TV watching that is all then over IP, you can still only watch + record as many FTA stations as there are tuners in the device. How many devices have more than 2 tuners? How many households have more than 2 TVs you say? Watching 1 station live, recording 2, because peak viewing time programming.

    But what I really want to know is what does this give me that LibreElec + HDHomeRun + USB tuner does not? (Apart from a less technically challenging setup.)

    • by SB5407 ( 4372273 )

      This is probably another nudge for me to finally set up PFSense, or mess with my router/gateway some more, or something, to head off / cut off all the damn advertising and tracking traffic from TVs and to put my smart devices on their own VLAN. If anyone has any suggestions for doing that, I--and I bet others here--would love to hear them. Maybe just a PiHole would be enough?

      Why haven't I done it already? I've been reluctant to start on this because in my mind, knowing what I've read about home smart stuff

    • "But what I really want to know is what does this give me that LibreElec + HDHomeRun + USB tuner does not?"

      Forget the extras mentioned, it gives you 4K. Replace your current HDHomeRun with their 4k version and you have the same thing, only in 4K.

  • by Reeses ( 5069 ) on Monday December 05, 2022 @04:33AM (#63103392)

    There was a point at the HDTV transition where I went all in. Got a fancy tuner with a Firewire cable, built a storage server, and had ample storage. But everything that came out of the tuner had some form of encryption. (proto-HDCP, basically) So the firewire cable would go dark when an encrypted show was on. Or the capture card wouldn't take an encrypted stream from the analog ports. I just gave up and largely stopped watching TV altogether.

    Ironically, in the last few years I've gone back to an antenna and "appointment TV" for a few shows. It's free (read: Not worth paying Comcast's exorbitant fees for their lower-quality rebroadcast signal), reliable, and works well enough.

    I guess when I get my next TV, it'll have these features too. That'll be nice.

    • I had a firewire PC and laptop connected to one of the fancy cable boxes. I never really got the firewire to work reliably with the cable box provided by my cable company.

      Note that encryption was on cable/satellite only.

      OTA broadcast channels CANNOT be, weren't and aren't encrypted. That's a requirement of being to able to transmit in the US. However, that doesn't mean that some of the cable providers didn't mess up and sometimes "forgot" to enable the broadcast flag on broadcast channels relayed over th

      • I've got a very old PCI tuner card and yes, I never saw anything encrypted. I think my tuner ignores the broadcast flag as nothing I ever tried to record was denied. Or maybe because it was linux. I hope they stick with 2.0. I really don't see a need to report back what I am watching or recording. I've literally saved tens of thousands of dollars over the years by never having cable. I don't watch that much tv, mainly news and weather so OTA is more than good enough for me.
        • You were lucky to not have been on Time Warner Cable with your CableCard setup then, as they encrypted literally every channel on basic cable except what was an OTA feed. Which meant that if you want to use your CableCard setup, it MUST run Windows 7/8 and MUST run Windows Media Center - a now discontinued product - because that was the only available software that could decrypt the streams if you did not buy a self-contained network-attached box like HDHomeRun stuff from SiliconDust.

          They really screwed me

          • I'll say it again, I use OTA, Over The Air. No cable involved. I do not have cable. And ironically, cable often reduces the signal bandwidth of the local stations crazily enough. OTA is a full 1080i signal or in some cases I think a 720p. And back when I started using it in the early 00's, disks could fill up pretty quick.
      • by SB5407 ( 4372273 )

        Cable card was a real pain as well, but worked well enough with my silicondust ethernet enabled tuner to record even pay channels like HBO.

        I had a CableCard with my Tivo and that worked great. I had dabbled with offloading some shows using something that used Python or Java, and that had worked pretty well too.I think it was Tom's Tivo To Go, or something tlike that?

        I've since moved to a OTA silicondust tuner after ditching cable and it's NEVER had any problems sending OTA channels to be recorded by my media server unencrypted.

        I've heard good things about those. A friend of mine has one. I don't know if it's OTA or cable TV or both, but last I heard, it worked well for him with Plex.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I just pirate everything. I might subscribe or buy the disc, but I'll still download a pirate version.

      Saves so much hassle. No DRM, no ads to skip over, no setting timers.

  • by HuskyDog ( 143220 ) on Monday December 05, 2022 @05:00AM (#63103446) Homepage
    How much longer is it going to be economically viable to keep broadcasting TV signals from huge and expensive transmitters?

    If you're at home then you almost certainly have some sort of cable broadband (fibre to the premises here) which you could stream TV over. If you're not at home then you have the likes of 5G to your phone.

    I agree that for some very popular live programmes (e.g. big sporting events) there might currently be capacity problems, particularly if many people are want to watch with slight - and different - delays due to having connected after the start time as this would prevent the use of multicast. However, internet bandwidth both to consumers and in the backbones continues to increase, so this limitation can't last.

    I agree that broadcast allows anonymous viewing (at least if you don't connect your TV to the internet), but I can't help feeling that one day - and not too far in the future - TV companies are going to start looking at the percentage of their viewers who still use over the air broadcasts and the cost of running their transmitters and come to an obvious conclusion.
    • by Swervin ( 836962 )
      I would assume the local affiliates have to do it to keep their affiliation with the national networks. I'm sure ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX/etc require you to have a transmitter if you want to have control of an area. Until that changes they'll keep broadcasting.
    • Needed for eas warnings and other things so for an long time just like AM radio

    • I don't have cable broadband to the home. I can get it but it's absurdly expensive. I have relatives with no cable hookups either, and a major cost just to start with that.

  • hahaha no (Score:2, Insightful)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 )

    I literally just hooked up an antenna so I could see if I could get any stations in around here. I guarantee none of them are using this new standard. Even if they were, my whole fucking 55" 4k TV was $299, I'm not spending that much again to watch broadcast TV. That's ignorant. SD broadcasts were actually better at delivering what I actually need out of TV, which is information about emergencies when my internet link is down. They degrade into static gracefully, where DTV just comes and goes, or goes away

    • Google/Facebook/Apple/other spyware and surveillance vendors have been eating all their ad revenue for over a fucking decade now. They're late to the party and want sloppy seconds.

    • For what it's worth, ATSC 3.0 does a much better job with signal reflection and multi-path routing, so a lot of the problems experienced at the boundary of reception range gets solved, and actually increases reception range of the transmissions.

  • It was his origin, at least here in Brazil
  • by larwe ( 858929 ) on Monday December 05, 2022 @07:37AM (#63103626)
    When the analog TV bands were sold to make a fast buck and rearrange the ownership landscape in favor of those with money to hire lobbyists... I mean, to make more efficient use of spectrum, there was a considerable effort taken to a) inform the public and give them time to prepare, and b) ensure specifically that the public would continue to be able to access free to air TV without being out of pocket in any way (free basic STBs). Remember when I say "the public" here I'm not referring to the average slashdot reader, I'm referring to non-wealthy, non-tech-foremost individuals, many of whom are (still) in areas underserved by broadband internet. This new "enhancement" to ATSC adds malign features that could be argued about (Television shouldn't be bidirectional!) But most importantly it's jamming planned obsolescence into yet another area of life, and the people who make money off this are, as usual, not being required to shoulder any of the costs imposed on the public.
  • Trying to find information on the ATSC 3.0 return path online is like pulling teeth, and there seems to be little real information on it. But the little I could find seems to point to it operating over an Internet connection - which means that it can be disabled or blocked outright.

    The idea of TVs having OTA returns makes no fundamental sense and would either violate the laws of physics, violate FCC laws around transmitter power (no, you can not stick a 1MW transmitter in a TV to talk back to a tower) or re

    • by larwe ( 858929 )

      TVs having OTA returns makes no fundamental sense and would either violate the laws of physics, violate FCC laws

      Given that the return path is highly asymmetric ("I pushed the BUY NOW button" up vs. megabits per second of video stream down) it would be possible to imagine many different "self-contained" scenarios that don't require an Internet link, and don't use the same band for the uplink as for the downlink (hence do not require symmetric Tx power). For example a 4G or 5G modem in the TV. Or even a satellite uplink a la Apple Watch. Yes, yes, there are antenna considerations, but they're solvable.

      • by brunes69 ( 86786 )

        Please explain how the antenna considerations are "solvable", because you are hand-waving a huge problem.

        - Do you know what an ATSC antenna looks like? In general they are very tiny and indoors.

        - Do you think that everyone is going to want a 50 foot antenna on their roof just to send spying information back to the TV station? Why would anyone in their right mind do that? Because the actual Television information is broadcast, you won't actually need a working return path in order to receive it. So where is

        • by larwe ( 858929 )
          Did you read what I wrote? Are you familiar with the size and configuration of 4G and (various satellite) chip and patch antennas? Do you have a 50 foot antenna on your cellphone or your Apple watch? In fact, the main antenna consideration I was "handwaving" is that if the antenna for the return path isn't physically inside the STB/TV set, it can be integrated into an application specific "ATSC 3.0" antenna which contains a large element for the downstream and a smaller element for the upstream, purely to g
  • Just like current TV broadcasts, NEXTGEN TV will primarily be a free service for viewers. In the future, there may be major events that are available only on a pay-per-view basis.

    While you can certainly receive NEXTGEN TV without being connected to the internet, most people who bring home a new NEXTGEN TV will connect it to broadband internet so they can enjoy the most immersive, rich entertainment experience possible. Plus, with an internet connection, NEXTGEN TV will be upgradeable as new features become available.

    Translation: There will be some very basic OTA options, as required by law. For the most part, you'll be tracked so we can sell your info to advertisers. Our most popular shows and sporting events will be PPV (or at least OTT).

  • WTF is this even addressing? You can already pick up the major networks in any major city with a paperclip unbent and jammed into the coax input. As long as you TV was made in the last ten years, it knows how to decode the digital broadcast already.

    • It is addressing the needs of advertisers and data brokers. I notice there is no talk of backwards compatibility with the existing ATSC standard, probably because there isn't. I am NOT buying a new TV again just because they changed the standard again.

      If they obsolete the existing ATSC and it makes my overpriced TV roamio obsolete, I am taking down the antenna and giving up on TV. I only really watch live events on the TV anymore, anyway.
    • by Guspaz ( 556486 )

      Current broadcasts have a resolution limit of 1080i (and are often lower) and are often quite low quality due to using MPEG-2 to cram multiple feeds into a single channel. The new standard enables higher resolutions (including 4K) and h.265/HEVC compression. Just seen from that perspective alone, it's a big step forward.

      However, it's not mandatory, only a few TVs support it (often the most expensive TVs, for example LG's C1 and C2 OLEDs don't support it, only their G and Z series do), and you need to take t

    • There is also the ability to require subscriptions before you can view some of the content (e.g., some sub-channels). The validity of the subscription will be determined via the Internet connection.
  • As a radio buff, I have had OTA forever. When it was NTSC, I discovered the OTA was cleaner than the slice and dice of my Cable Company. Went to dish and OTA. When HDTV was experimental, got a USDTV box from Walmart and hooked it to my NTSC set. It worked very well, and the downconverted signal was still better than even my clean OTA NTSC signal. I got one of the first HDTV sets, and for a long time UHF was HDTV and the old allocations for NTSC. Fast forward a few years....broadcasters nerfed the pictu
  • I don't see where the transition to digital TV was worth it. That is, who benefited? Sure, no static when the signal is perfect, but what percentage enjoys that scenario?

    Now, older TVs require a converter box, which wastes extra power, multiplied by millions of TV sets.

    It's almost impossible to use rabbit-ear antennas now because during a "new channel" scan, certain stations require the antenna be oriented a certain way, but you can't manually adjust the antenna while the scan is being done becaus
  • Will it be enough to overcome the OTA deadzone I live in? I can literally get 2 channels in a Top 10 city in Canada.
  • I read

    "One potential downside? ATSC 3.0 will also let broadcasters track your viewing habits," CNet reported earlier this year, calling the data "information that can be used for targeted advertising, just like companies such as Facebook and Google use today...

    Then remembered

    This time the new standard isn't mandatory for TV stations,

    And I was like yah! for about two seconds.
    Then I realized it will be a matter of time before this is mandatory.

    • "to see the Superb Owl, enter your email address or cell phone number NOW". (there will be a way to do it without this, but it will be buried under 12 pages of TOS-Click at end, and the link will be in the middle, somewhere, and not a hyperlink)
      • Tell me more about this Superb Owl. What are his super powers? Does he fight crime? Is he an actual owl or just a guy in a costume? I'm intrigued.
        • In order to avoid copyright, a certain big-deal pro football game is unhappy if you use their name. I stole this from Colbert
  • by clickclickdrone ( 964164 ) on Monday December 05, 2022 @10:04AM (#63103946)
    Sounds awfully like SKy Q as we have in the UK. You have a single Q box which has 4K and a 2Tb HD for recordings plus you can use it to access Netflix and the like. You can then add multiple WiFi boxes to stream to other TVs in the house. From memory you can record 3 channels at once whilst watching a fourth. Been out about 7 years now. It works really well although you do need a dish still but they're moving to 100% IP options via Sky Glass TVs but I imagine an outboard box will appear eventually to use your own TVs
  • Is an Internet connection required to view any of the OTA programs? If so, what about tracking of what you watch?
  • Instead, it's connected to your router. This means anything with access to your network can have access to over-the-air TV,

    My TV sets don't have access to a network. Because 1) they only have component or HDMI inputs, and 2) I don't have broadband in many places like my cabin or my boat.

    If I had Internet access, I'd be streaming content. And skipping all those stupid ads. I think the industry doesn't understand the business case for OTA TV.

    • Reality Check: most streaming channels have ads. The major sports channels are every bit as littered with ads as OTA. Main difference is that the ads tend to have slightly better production values - and are not almost entirely scam, medicare supplement (get off my lawn Joe Namath and Bill Shatner!), and lawyers.

      *IF* this works better in fringe-reception situations, and will work without internet connection (other than the Roku stick), then I might be interested. When we went digital, I lost access (most of

  • by WaffleMonster ( 969671 ) on Monday December 05, 2022 @11:19AM (#63104182)

    Did Silicon Dust's Kickstarter for their ATSC3 tuner years ago and there still isn't a hint of ATSC3 in my market.

    Suppose that's a good thing because they fucked everyone over with the completely unnecessary new audio codecs. Nobody has audio gear that will decode AC4 and the codec has yet to be mainlined into ffmpeg so even if I did have ATSC3 broadcasts it would be a subtitles only.

    The good thing is that the broadcasts are still just video streams despite the hype and capabilities of the underlying system. Sure you will have some people try to turn it into an OTA cable subscription service or some kind of OTA packet service like that old MSN thing but I suspect that will surely fail and most won't bother attempting it... so most of it will just be free to air like ATSC with 0 tracking way more range, bandwidth and better video codecs.

    • Nobody has audio gear that will decode AC4

      That should never hold back the adoption of a better technology. By all means roll out AC4 and make sure that receivers for it downmix or transcode it to something else, but heck if we waited for consumers to have wide spread support for new thing before rolling out new thing we never would have gotten past black and white TV.

      • That should never hold back the adoption of a better technology. By all means roll out AC4 and make sure that receivers for it downmix or transcode it to something else, but heck if we waited for consumers to have wide spread support for new thing before rolling out new thing we never would have gotten past black and white TV.

        AC4 isn't better than existing audio codecs (Opus, AAC, Vorbis, etc). It brings nothing new to the table other than something to extract patent royalties for the next 20 years. Completely unnecessary.

  • Turned off the laugh track snake oil whore peddling beast years ago with no regrets.

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