Netflix's Password Sharing Crackdown Officially Hits US Customers (yahoo.com) 100
Netflix's controversial password sharing crackdown just hit the US. From a report: In addition to the US, Netflix confirmed it will also be rolling out the crackdown across all regions around the world such as the UK, France, Germany, Mexico, Brazil, Singapore, Australia, among others. "Netflix account is for use by one household," the company wrote in the post. "Everyone living in that household can use Netflix wherever they are -- at home, on the go, on holiday -- and take advantage of new features like Transfer Profile and Manage Access and Devices." Netflix broadened its crackdown in early February to include countries like Canada, New Zealand, Portugal, and Spain, in addition to the test countries of Chile, Costa Rica, and Peru. It previously said "a broad rollout" of the policy would hit this quarter.
Once again I'd like to thank Netflix (Score:2, Insightful)
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Same here. Screw those guys. They need us more than we need them. Besides, their only purpose seems to be powering the internet rage machine when they cancel a show after its 6.3128 episode-long second season.
Re:Once again I'd like to thank Netflix (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, what is going on here? What is it which is so upsetting about this? It seems like something which has been a long time coming.
Re:Once again I'd like to thank Netflix (Score:5, Insightful)
Ultimately none of that really matters. If account sharing is the (accidental) killer feature that keeps people paying for Netflix, Netflix will either abandon those customers or change their strategy. No one is entitled to Netflix and Netflix isn't entitled to customers.
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True but by the same token Netflix isn't entitled to my money either.
That is literally what the GP said in his last sentence.
It wasn't where the emphasis was though (Score:2)
When you do a multi-sentence rant about how entitled consumers are and end it with a half hearted line like that it's not a point you're trying to make, it's a rhetorical device.
Re:Once again I'd like to thank Netflix (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Once again I'd like to thank Netflix (Score:2)
Reminds me of Metallica (Score:3)
Been a long comes Napster and MP3s and suddenly they want to sue their fans in the pulp after it was those same fans sharing their music that made their careers. If it wa
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Netflix literally is not a company with the same strategy as it was back when it ran that ad campaign. Heck they don't even have the same leadership team now as they do back then. It would be strange to think a company wouldn't change.
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Yes, like most companies their strategy and leadership team has changed over time. However, the statement "something which was never offered, never a service which they were selling, and always illegal" is absolutely false because they not only allowed sharing, they encouraged it. People are pitching a fit because they DID offer it, it is a feature their customers have relied upon when considering the value of a Netflix subscription, and now they're taking it away with no drop in price to offset the loss
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They're just trying to hassle poor people that don't stay in one location very long. Why do you hate poor people?
Re:Once again I'd like to thank Netflix (Score:4, Informative)
Wow, Netflix's astroturfing is working really well.
Netflix's "household" thing is new. The agreement I signed had three restrictions:
1) no public display
2) use mostly in the home country
3) number of simultaneous streams limited to the number specified by the account.
So regardless of whether it's because you're lazy or malicious, stop lying.
TOS update notice (Score:2)
I guess that depends on whether you got a notice to the effect "Our updated agreement will take effect when your subscription renews, as if you had signed it, unless you cancel your subscription before it renews."
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That aside, at least where I live, I don't think contracts with a clause that lets one party change it unilaterally are legal.
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They aren't unilaterally changing the contract. They are declining to offer you a new subscription period under the old contract.
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The original contract has a clause that says they can change the terms whenever they want. That invalidates the contract. One of our mobile providers learned this the hard way when they changed their terms and it immediately released all their customers from their contracts. Also, Netflix continues my service even though I haven't clicked their "I acknowledge the changed terms of service" button.
Anyway, it's legally moot because the remedy is the same: either party can terminate the contract. But the OP (a)
There's nothing self-righteous about it (Score:3)
And bullshit Netflix hasn't been offering this. They've been allowing it for decades. At a certain point you're no longer off the hook or taking something away that you've made available for ages. Never mind the fact that
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I guess that came off as, "I've never seen so much self-righteousness as the comment I'm replying too." Which was not what I meant. This has been a story for years at this point, as Netflix warned people way in advance, and in every one of these threads there are a lot of people talking about how outraged they are. As though this were an affront, some offense that Netflix was committing. Your
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Yeah, it's not like Netflix has really had a ton of super engaging content lately that would make it worth that price to me.
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Tubi, or not Tubi.
The actual question is, suffer 720p?
=-=
Wait and See. (Score:5, Informative)
I've been under the crackdown for five months, or so I'm told. Two households of occasional viewers, same city, but a long way apart. Not a peep. Put a pin in the indignation and wait to see if they actually come knocking. Then make a decision.
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Re:Wait and See. (Score:5, Funny)
What a strange game. The only winning move is to not play.
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What a strange game. The only winning move is to not play.
What a strange game. The only winning move is to not subscribe.
FTFY
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I'm sure they have an algorythm (Score:2)
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Maybe they are looking to see if people are out of the city (a bit further apart then your example.)
Youtube TV family household sharing kicks in once you are in a different region (in my family's case, it was San Antonio,TX versus Yreka,CA)
The result is exactly what you would think, I canceled the service. But that one cost a lot more then netflix.
Re: Wait and See. (Score:2)
I'm in the exact same situation. They haven't bothered us. Funny thing is I wouldn't really mind if I had to pay extra to support the other household.
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Same boat. My daughter moved out and took her Ruko with her that has my password on it for netflix. She watches it a lot and I watch it occasionally. If they try weasel more money out of me by my daughter using my account I will simply close the account. Instead of the extra account they are trying to blackmail me into they will lose all the accounts. Problem solved.
Multi IP households (Score:4, Interesting)
I have yet to hear from either Netflix or Comcast on how they plan to handle multi IP households. Netflix on the set-top boxes gets an external IP direct off the coax connection. Netflix on a PC/phone/tablet/etc. in the same house gets NATted through the IP of the cable modem, which is not in the same range as the set-top boxes. Same subscription, and actually paid for by Comcast (it's bundled in the plan). If they don't sort it out it doesn't just affect me, it potentially affects all ~25M of their subscribers.
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I don't live in the US, so with comcast, their set top boxes are a built in cable modem / digital cable tuner built into one? Out here we had digital boxes but they didn't access the internet. I imagine they'd have looked into this and it's not a strict ip filter, it probably takes into the account type of device, geoip location etc. So if you have mutliple PCs watching netflix with different ips, that would probably set it off.
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Yes, the set-top box basically incorporates a cable modem so they can grab an IP for their built-in streaming apps, plus the digital tuner for more traditional cable - Comcast of course would prefer that you keep your whole media experience on their box so they can push more advertising and services to you (and it is, honestly, kind of handy to be able to search for a movie or show and have it identify which services can show it to you, although that system isn't 100% perfect).
Netflix would have to identify
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It's probably a soft threshold, because if you use it on your phone, and then take it on a bus, your IP is going to change when you switch to cellular etc.
So I don't think their sharing prevention is going to disable access if an IP octet changes.
I think it's going to be more based on the amount of different addreses, profiles, watching habbits, amount of different devices, and streaming at the same time. They're also only likely to crack down on the most egregious of account sharing.
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Phones, tablets, even PCs, have unique identifiers that are most likely being used.
How they identify a "household" is the tricky part. Probably they see if there are multiple simultaneous viewing coming regularly from a different IP base? Because they would allow one spouse to watch on a TV while remote at a hotel. How they determine this isn't clear, and it's not listed in their blog how they go about determining a household.
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I suspect they'll track the reporting device, if it's a device that was in your home and goes places, it'll likely be fine, and they probably identify hotels as well, and one off usage is not likely to cause an issue.
But high usages where it's clear it's being shared with someone who doesn't live in the household is likely what will trigger it.
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I only use Netflix on my ipad when I'm not at home. Because if I'm at home I'll use the TV instead. So there's more to figuring this out going on, or at least hopefully.
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I don't know about PCs sure they have a unique id, but if you access netflix through a browser I doubt it exposes (or shouldn't exposes) it. Sure a cookie may work but that can be cleared.
I noticed that when I access it through a browser the way I usually do it doesn't ask about sharing. The other household that shares only uses a browser to view so maybe that's why I haven't been pinged.
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They almost certainly considered it. There'll be some automatic triaging going on, to as good a level of fidelity as they can get. If you have the right sources, you can figure out if two distinct addresses are possibly co-located in the manner you describe. If you're worried about a false positive, I suspect they're going to err way on the side of not generating one. They don't want to ruffle feathers unnecessarily.
So what's the big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean I could guess but I shouldn't assume, are people raging because they would have to pay for netflix to use it?
Sounds like the same crowd who promoted and let theft happen massively at walmart stores that they were unprofitable and closed their doors, and the people raged about it.
I have bad news, for all of you who are like "Fine! If I can't use it for free, I won't use netflix! I don't care about Netflix!". I have news for you.
Netflix and everyone else doesn't care that you will have to pay for it to use it now, or if you don't use it.
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Re:So what's the big deal? (Score:4, Interesting)
I think it's more that they charge 20+ dollars for the highest plan just to have 4k. There is no point in paying that price unless you *can* share it. I think it might be a different story if you didn't have to subscribe to the top package just to get 4k. Or the middle package to get simple 1080p.
Guess I'll be subbing just one month a year in the future, if at all.
My biggest issue for 4k is the device requirements, it basically has to be a built in TV app to get 4k. If I use my PC with 4k content they won't allow it since it's not all HDMI 2.1 and I could be copying it.
As for the rest of it, what's the cost of entertainment? I'm not going to argue if it's worth while to you of course as only you can decide if its personally worth it to you, but for the amount of hours and content people can watch, or how a movie costs you 20$ for a single show, or two to four drinks at a bar easily cost you more than 20$, it doesn't seem like they're asking much.
If they have shows you want to watch, anyway.
TL;DR
Saying it's not worth buying a game at 70$ unless you can give copies to your friends is still theft of service, same with netflix.
I cannot argue if the it worth while to you or not that's only for you to decide, but I think the argument that it's only worth it if I can give it for free to other people is shit.
Re: So what's the big deal? (Score:2)
The difference is that for years Netflix encouraged password sharing.
https://www.newsweek.com/netfl... [newsweek.com]
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Households don't mean 'families'.
They mean the same physical residence, so in your example I believe is exactly what netflix is saying. If you're kid lives somewhere else, then ask them to sign up their own account. I also expect it to be soft enforcement targeting the most egregious sharing of accounts, like devices that never go to that house hold, and streaming at the same time etc.
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I believe you're right and that's how netflix views it. A household doesn't have to be family, it's roommates, etc, but people who share enough infrastructure and network, be it common rooms or building to count as a household.
I'm sure at the base level they consider it a physical location where people share the same internet, exceptions being a college campus or other stuff before someone posts a silly response.
Re:So what's the big deal? (Score:5, Interesting)
I believe you're right and that's how netflix views it. A household doesn't have to be family, it's roommates, etc, but people who share enough infrastructure and network, be it common rooms or building to count as a household.
The problem is that the government defines a household very differently. A college student is legally considered to be part of the parents' household until after graduation, even if physically living away from home, because their college dorm or apartment is considered to be a temporary, part-time accommodation. Legally, being away at college is no different than staying in a hotel.
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Of course since watching TV is not considered a legal right (unlike say allowing a parent to keep a son or daughter on their health insurance as long as they pay the additional fees for a family plan). So how Netflix defines household is all that really matters.
That's not *entirely* true. The farther your definition is from the way a term is usually defined, the more likely a judge is to consider it a misrepresentation and invalidate the contract. What that would mean in this sort of situation is unclear, of course.
And because this is such a key part of what you get for your money, there's also a possible false advertising angle, where terms really have to be used in a way that the average person understands them.
I'm not saying Netflix would be guaranteed to los
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This is one of the issues when we make "the law" more and more obscured and only understandable to those "admitted to the priesthood" (similar to the days of the mainframe and the keepers thereof). Go to Merriam-Webster, and their definition is: ": those who dwell under the same roof and compose a family, also : a social unit composed of those living together in the same dwelling". Law "should" be commonsense, and the language should be understandable by those who it applies to. The fact that the government has bodged up the simple and understandable definition does not help things...
Ah, but government didn't actually mess up the definition. If you ask most college students where their home is, they'll give you their parents' address, not the address of their dorm. They still live under that roof, both legally and socially. That is still their permanent address, and that's the only reasonable permanent address they could possibly give. After all, if they get mail at home, their parents will open it and tell them about it, but if they get mail at their school dorm while they're out f
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So riddle me this then -- where do college students register to vote?
Legally speaking, they can register to vote either in their home state (by mail if necessary) or wherever they are attending college [bestcolleges.com], regardless of whether that is considered a temporary or permanent address. The only thing they can't do is be registered to vote in both places at once.
For that matter, in theory, anyone can have more than one residence, and can be registered to vote at whichever residence they see fit. That isn't specific to college students; it is, however, a bigger headache for them beca
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Actually, Netflix gets to proscribe any rules that they prefer, regardless of whether you would prefer them to use different wording/phrasing.
They can proscribe any rules they want. However, if those rules aren't written in plain language and that omission misleads people into believing that they are getting something they aren't, that could potentially be a Lanham Act problem.
If they wish to say that the subscription is associated with a single dwelling, with very limited exceptions (i.e. temporary travel, less then 7 days as an example), and if said restrictions are spelled out in the contract that a subscriber agrees to in order to sign up for said subscription -- then it really doesn't matter what government entities would prefer.
That's correct. But it has to be spelled out clearly. Saying "household" and then burying the details in a definition that defines "household" in a nonstandard way might be enough to protect against a lawsuit over breach of contract, but is almost certainly not adequate
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I have been happily paying for Netflix for years. I originally got it because it had shows that my kids wanted to watch, and it was inexpensive. I have six kids, and Netflix was a deal. At some point I upgraded to the fanciest package because, every once in a while, I needed more concurrent streams. So now I am on the Premium Ultra HD program. Fast forward a few more years and my two oldest have moved out of the house. However, they took the Netflix username and password with them, and they use them o
I'm already paying for Netflix (Score:2, Insightful)
Netflix is free to do what they want. So am I. I'll be cancelling the 1st time I see the prompt.
As for those folks looking the other way, it's for stuff like baby formula & diapers. Frankly if I saw somebody stealing that stuff I'd look the other way too. The fact that baby formula has been made so valuable in America that people steal it, either because they can flip it or be
That may be (Score:2)
The sad thing is I think you actually believe that. Sorry man, but I'm not the one to break you out of whatever rabbit hole you've dug yourself into. Good luck son. You're gonna need it.
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I mean I could guess but I shouldn't assume, are people raging because they would have to pay for netflix to use it?
No. I paid for premium with 4 simultaneous streams. My kids should be able to watch in their college dorm rooms the same as when they are home.
The only restriction should be no more than the four simultaneous streams I am paying for.
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Nintendo switch makes me pay per account if I want those features available on my kids profile and mine. If you have cable tv, it would be illegal to run a cable to your kids residence regardless of where they are. Just because the internet infrastructure is there, doesn't mean the business model has to change.
What you paid for is 4 simultaneous streams in the same household. Legal agreements aren't quite like the bible where people just leave out the bits they don't like and ignore them.
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Legal agreements aren't quite like the bible
They can be as different as the Bible and the Qur'an. For example, as dgatwood pointed out in another comment, the US tax code also defines "household" differently from Netflix. College students living on campus are part of the same tax household as their parents and not part of the same Netflix household.
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Nintendo switch makes me pay per account if I want those features available on my kids profile and mine. If you have cable tv, it would be illegal to run a cable to your kids residence regardless of where they are. Just because the internet infrastructure is there, doesn't mean the business model has to change.
What you paid for is 4 simultaneous streams in the same household. Legal agreements aren't quite like the bible where people just leave out the bits they don't like and ignore them.
This is a streaming service, and the service is not tied to a physical structure. I use it when I'm on the train, when I travel, when I'm at the office, when I'm in my car. My kids are members of my household, it says so on their driver's licenses and according to the IRS. Traveling or temporarily staying elsewhere, including college, is not a change of permanent residence. If it was it would trigger lots of consequences, such as a need to change your drivers license and file local taxes.
As for Nintendo,
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I think the big deal here is that it's nothing short of a cash grab on the part of Netflix.
For the last decade Netflix has looked the other why (I will not say encouraged) on this policy or TOS. Why? They were the big dog and their business was still growing. Password sharing was like free advertising and marketing for them. Only now that the market is flooded with streaming services from every content provider, has Netflix considered tightening the screws on their "policy".
We pay for a plan that includ
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I think the internet has habit of magnify perceived rage.
If you express your opinion that you are annoyed with Netflix for stopping password sharing, it as seen like anger. However there really isn't a good way to tell how angry you are, you might be slightly annoyed, or storm into Netflix's head office with a gun angry. You loose all the tone, and body language cues that you would get in normal conversation.
Only fair thing to do (Score:2)
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Well, they could. Early on, Comcast tried to enforce only one device on a cable modem plan - no internal IP addresses! Of course they couldn't make it stick.
Every "All U Can Eat" plan causes problems like Netflix is having. The invisible-hand solution to all this would be to charge ala carte - $6 for a new movie, $2 for an old one, and on and on... but it's so annoying to constantly worry about how many charges you are racking up that people hate it. So i
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Sure you can. Cable companies used to charge by the TV.
They won't, because people with kids would scream bloody murder.
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I didn't say it was right, I said that's why they haven't messed with the people with kids.
Netflix's original system, with a certain number of simultaneous streams per subscription level made sense and was fair. Now that they have competition we're into the "monetize like your life depends on it" phase of the software startup lifecycle. They've upped prices, but some big brain MBA has (correctly) pointed out that if they do that too much the loss of subscribers is going to be counter productive. I'm sure so
Not a deal breaker for many households... (Score:3)
Set up a VPN server (Score:2)
And continue to binge watch with your friends. Only trouble, they have to do one more click before they can watch their shows.
Seriously, how's that supposed to work out for Netflix? Do people really not know how to set up a VPN server?
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No. Most people absolutely do not know how to set up a VPN server. I suspect you're joking about that, though...
I, personally, would have exactly no interest in being the IT tech support and VPN provider for any other households. Especially not just so that somebody else doesn't have to pay $20/month.
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Hmm... I could see this service becoming available pretty soon for a few bucks.
As long as it's cheaper than a Netflix subscription, you might have a business model at your hands.
That does it! (Score:2)
I've got dibs on "Password1". All of the rest of you had better quit using it.
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"hunter2" is mine!
Give me the numbers!!! (Score:2)
I want to see a graph showing percentages by country of account/IP restrictions.
Just curious which nations have the highest quantity of password sharing twits compared to the lowest per capita.
Whatever (Score:1)
Netflix is trash. I won't use it even if you gave me your password.
Oh noes! (Score:2)
Pay by the Stream. (Score:2)
I subscribe to the plan for the number of streams that the household combined uses. Netflix would be better informed if the adopted this strategy. "We do not care who and how many are using your account, just make sure you have subscribed to the right number." The cut off any stream above that number. Problem solved,
That said, this is still less that cable by a factor of 5 or more. Also, I give all the "new" streamers 1-2 years before they are consolidated down to 2, and content starts making its way back t
SSH tunnel to the rescue (Score:2)
If you can (google and) setup a Socks5/ssh proxy from 'netflix residential home IP', I doubt you'll have problems with Netflix from wherever you are.
Do not expect to rent some cheap VM with a hosting company with the same results, because the IP blocks are different and netflix understands that somehow.
-- given my own tests.
Another whatever... (Score:1)
Have to say, I use a VPN, and will always use a VPN, so if you can't sell me your product through a VPN you are simply losing out on my money.
I'll still get what I want, because hey, I know how to use a VPN and torrents.
It got the point that it was getting impossible to find anything anyway - why do they keep adding old crap syndicated junk - IF I WANT THAT SHIT I'LL USE CABLE. I'm not buying that junk, I'm only buying originals - which it seems no one wants to make anymore except Apple.
Psst... this goes fo
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