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Music Technology

Jony Ive's First Post-Apple Hardware Project is a $60,000 Turntable (yahoo.com) 128

Posted by msmash from the design-obsession dept.
Jony Ive has been busy since leaving Apple, with his design agency working on things like a typeface, a charity clown nose and "the future of Airbnb." LoveFrom's latest project takes Ive back to his hardware days -- it's a new model of a modular turntable that's been around for half a century. From a report: LoveFrom helped refine Linn's Sondek LP12 for a 50th anniversary edition. Ive told Fast Company it was a "very gentle and modest project" for LoveFrom that stems from his team's admiration for Linn. Perhaps as a result of that, LoveFrom carried out the work pro bono. "There are many things that I've always wanted to be able to do purely for the love of doing them," Ive noted.

The design firm approached Linn about working together, in part because Ive is a long-time fan of the brand. The two teams examined every aspect of the LP12 but couldn't change the turntable very much owing to concerns over impact to the sound quality. Still, LoveFrom "saw a number of areas where there could be small improvements and gentle evolutions of the current design," Ive said. [...] If you're interested in owning the first post-Apple hardware that Ive worked on, you'll have to dig deep into your pockets. The Sondek LP12-50 costs $60,000 and Linn is only making 250 of them.
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Jony Ive's First Post-Apple Hardware Project is a $60,000 Turntable More

Jony Ive's First Post-Apple Hardware Project is a $60,000 Turntable

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  • Makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ArmoredDragon ( 3450605 ) on Friday July 07, 2023 @01:28PM (#63665755)

    I mean who else other than the iFan demographic would insist that vinyl is $60,000 better?

    • I mean who else other than the iFan demographic would insist that vinyl is $60,000 better?

      Actually you seem to know very little about the audiophools out there. I think they would devalue it on the basis of being an iFan product and yet would happily spend their $60k (or sometimes more) on a different turntable.

    • On the other hand, you could convince me that an analog medium is superior to digital... if it can be read non-destructively. I tend to think there's something elegant about directly scratching a sound wave into a surface. Vinyl can record a greater frequency range than the human ear can hear, too. The technology is extremely primitive and in theory anyone can build their own wax cylinder recorder and player. There's something awesome about that.

      But playback? Physical pickups destroy a bit of the recor

      • Re:Makes sense (Score:4, Funny)

        by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Friday July 07, 2023 @04:06PM (#63666307)
        Right, here's how I do it:

        I employ an array of meticulously selected audio equipment to indulge in the immersive experience of listening to a vinyl LP. The process involves multiple stages and components, each designed to ensure the utmost fidelity and sonic excellence.

        First, I procure a top-of-the-line turntable, renowned for its precision engineering and meticulous craftsmanship. The turntable would feature a robust and highly calibrated motor system, along with an exceptionally balanced tonearm, equipped with an ultra-low mass cartridge boasting a stylus of exceptional quality.

        To enhance the signal integrity and minimise any potential distortions, I employ a carefully chosen phono preamplifier. This component serves to amplify the delicate signal generated by the cartridge, while also equalising and correcting the frequency response peculiarities inherent to vinyl recordings.

        From the phono preamplifier, the signal is routed to a meticulously designed and meticulously constructed amplifier. The amplifier itself exhibits exceptional electrical characteristics, providing substantial power and a remarkably low signal-to-noise ratio. Its circuitry incorporates high-quality components, possibly including vacuum tubes renowned for their unique sonic characteristics.

        Next, the signal traverses through an intricate network of audio cables, each constructed with superior materials and engineered to minimise signal degradation and interference. The cables exhibit superior shielding properties, ensuring optimal signal transmission fidelity from the turntable to the amplifier.

        To fine-tune the audio output, I employ additional signal processing units, such as equalisers, compressors, & limiters. These units are carefully calibrated and adjusted, with precise attention given to achieving the desired sonic characteristics, catering to my discerning preferences.

        Finally, the audio signal, having been faithfully reproduced and processed, reaches a set of meticulously positioned and acoustically treated loudspeakers. These speakers are specifically designed for accurate sound reproduction, ensuring a wide frequency response and minimal distortion. I position the speakers in an acoustically optimised listening environment, carefully accounting for room dimensions, speaker placement, and room treatment materials.

        In this setup, I delicately place the vinyl LP on the turntable, gently lower the stylus onto the record's grooves, and immerse myself in the captivating audio experience, appreciating the meticulous attention to detail and sonic accuracy achieved through this intricate and comprehensive audio equipment configuration.

        As far as I'm concerned, this is the only way to listen to the Spice Girls' first album.

        • I can't argue with that beautiful prose... but even though it wouldn't read nearly as nicely, I really think it ought to end with a deadly honest, "And then I listen to it with my human ear which is entirely incapable of taking advantage of any of it".

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tchdab1 ( 164848 )

      A $60,000 "project of love" turntable is further evidence we're not taxing the wealthy enough.

  • Design Language (Score:4, Funny)

    by crunchy_one ( 1047426 ) on Friday July 07, 2023 @01:32PM (#63665777)
    It certainly follows Jony Ive's design language and winds up looking like a bathroom accessory.
  • I'm glad Jony Ive continues making great products for the "every man" to enjoy and afford. LOL.
  • Does it support Bluetooth?

    • Does it support Bluetooth?

      Wouldn't it be neat if the record companies could pre-digitize the music for you and directly send it to your playback device through the internet? Someone really should get on that idea.

      • They do that. The last 3 records I bought included download links to digital files, with the benefit of me still having something physical that works without the internet, includes wonderfully crafted album art in a large format, and looks pretty damn good to boot.

  • I don't get it (Score:3)

    by vadim_t ( 324782 ) on Friday July 07, 2023 @01:49PM (#63665837) Homepage

    I've had a turntable and don't miss it -- everything about music on vinyl is just bad. The quality is mediocre, the media is inconvenient, and even this thing will be inferior to a dirt cheap CD player.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      Tin ears, egos and entitlement.

      This is a product meant for SuperKendall's Christmas list.

    • I agree with your main point, but would add that there are still a few things that are fun about a turntable:

      1) It's fun to watch it spin and understand completely how it works. So much that a child can build their own record player.

      2) You feel connected to Thomas Edison and AG Bell using this technology.

      3) The vinyl packaging is usually much cooler than the CD.

      4) Similar to a mechanical watch, which is much more fun to look at than a solid state watch.

      In terms of sound, there is no reason to favo

      • Re:I don't get it (Score:5, Insightful)

        by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Friday July 07, 2023 @02:24PM (#63665965) Journal

        Even if somehow you sincerely like the sound of a record, you won't for long as it gets pops and scratches.

        For this reason, I don't understand why people don't use laser-based turntables. There are some records that are hard/impossible to find in any other format, so why use a needle to scratch that stuff up?

        • Re:I don't get it (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Pentium100 ( 1240090 ) on Friday July 07, 2023 @02:40PM (#63666031)

          Laser based record players exists, but they have two problems:
          1. They are extremely expensive (though maybe not $60k)
          2. They are extremely sensitive to dust. A regular stylus can move most of the dust particles out of the way, a laser has no way to do that and no way to distinguish dust from the groove. This means that the record has to be as clean as the platters of a hard drive if you want to play it without the crackle.

          What I usually do when buying a brand new record is to copy it to a reel to reel tape on the first or second play and then play the tape most of the time when I want to listen to the music.

          • This is off-topic, but I've never heard of this device, the laser record player. It's drawback is almost funny. Are there models that use flowing air to clear the groove ahead of the "stylus" beam?

            Y'all can use that. I'm not designing record players or filing patents anytime soon. And, for the record...I like your old-school reel-to-reel style. Seems like a good kind of crazy.

            • The air compressor/fan would probably create enough noise to make the cleaning pointless unless the record player is placed in a separate room with very good soundproofing.

              Yeh, I use cassettes and reel to reel tapes. Cassettes are great for playing in a car or in a walkman (or at home). No need for internet connection, subscriptions and I can easily choose which cassette I want to play without having to go through menus (especially useful when driving).

          • How do you know all this? I've looked for laser record players, and haven't been able to find one. Did you just make all that up?

          • What I usually do when buying a brand new record is to copy it to a reel to reel tape on the first or second play

            I have done this too when for rare recordings (which are relatively common in the classical music scene)

          • What I usually do when buying a brand new record is to copy it to a reel to reel tape on the first or second play

            If you're going for quality, why not copy it to a digital format? A good ADC will beat reel to reel tape in terms of, well, just about everything and will copy flawlessly.

            • And where is the fun in that? Also, sometimes tape is more convenient for me.

              • Ooh fair enough. I like records for the fun of it too. I imagine reel to reel tape has a similar appeal

                • Yeah, also, tapes are more convenient than digital in some regards and worse in others. IMO both digital and analog formats have their uses and I use them all. There is some overlap of music between the formats, but I also have quite a few recordings that are on only one format.

          • Laser based record players exists, but they have two problems:
            1. They are extremely expensive (though maybe not $60k)
            2. They are extremely sensitive to dust. A regular stylus can move most of the dust particles out of the way, a laser has no way to do that and no way to distinguish dust from the groove. This means that the record has to be as clean as the platters of a hard drive if you want to play it without the crackle.

            What I usually do when buying a brand new record is to copy it to a reel to reel tape on the first or second play and then play the tape most of the time when I want to listen to the music.

            3. I think it misses the point.

            Vinyl isn't about the music, it's about an experience built around the music, and the physical process is a critical part of that.

            It's like going to the movie theatre vs a decent home theatre. Sure, the movie theatre picture and sound might be a bit better, but there's a whole lot of things about the home theatre that are objectively better. No commuting/parking to the theatre, no sitting through previews, no worrying about the start time, able to pause and go to the bathroom,

            • Some people really care about the sound quality, they buy expensive players, cables etc. If the laser record player had higher quality than a similarly priced regular one, they would buy it.

              As for the movie theater, to me, watching movies at home is so much better, both alone and with a friend.

              • Some people really care about the sound quality

                Don't be ridiculous. They buy record players.

                • Yes, because they believe that a $20k record player playing a $200 record will sound better than any CD player playing a CD. Don't forget the $500 audio cables and $200 power cables.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by radaos ( 540979 )
            This is the company making laser turntables https://www.elpj.com/ [elpj.com]
            At the time the technology was released, CDs had already achieved dominance, so it never reached high enough production volume to bring the cost down. They are still being individually assembled to order in Japan.
            An ultrasonic record cleaner is a must.

        • For this reason, I don't understand why people don't use laser-based turntables.

          Because they ended up being vastly inferior to scratching a stylus through the groove. You can spend a lot of money on a laser turntable, and if you spent the same on a normal one you'd be far better off. They were a good idea, an attempt to solve the problem of moving equipment, but they were sensitive to dust and grove tracking related issues in ways that even a cheap $300 player weren't. Then they also didn't solve some of the real issues such as wow or flutter which was caused through the accuracy of th

        • I have an optical turntable which plays records vertically, and is smart enough to be able to fast forward or rewind between songs. They are useful for playing without running a needle along the grooves, but:

          1: You still "wear" records by taking them in and out, with oil and dust.

          2: Dust causes play issues.

          3: Oddly colored records may or may not play.

          4: Odd sizes of records, for example, square records or others won't play on it, because of the way it loads and unloads records.

          5: They are rare. If th

      • In terms of sound, there is no reason to favor a turntable over a CD. Even if somehow you sincerely like the sound of a record, you won't for long as it gets pops and scratches.

        IMO, from a purely technical perspective, yes. I can copy a record to CD and not hear a difference using my equipment and my ears.
        However, sometimes a record is better mastered than a CD - they know that primarily audiophiles will be buying it so they may dial the compressor down a bit. Of course, they could release a CD with wide dynamic range, but they don't for some reason. Or, a record may just be an old release, from a time when they did not try to reduce the dynamic range to 1dB.

        When I buy a brand new

    • I've had a turntable and don't miss it -- everything about music on vinyl is just bad. The quality is mediocre, the media is inconvenient, and even this thing will be inferior to a dirt cheap CD player.

      I'm with you there. I love a lot of vintage technologies... old Bakelite rotary phones, good mechanical typewriters, etc... but I've never understood the love for Vinyl. And I grew up with it. Current aficionados say that they can hear richer levels of sound through the medium, but they must have dog ears or something. All I ever heard are pops and scratches over inferior sound reproduction. My grandfather's contemporary reel-to-reel deck was a far superior music player. When I got into MP3, that was it, t

  • In his defense, he's probably one of the audiophool cultists, but still, this is a scam product through and through.

    • I call this kind of product "design masturbation".

    • He said he designed it for free, so it's probably not a scam. At least, not by him.

    • Scams exist. Charging a premium for a limited edition device from a renowned company is not a scam, rather it's a rich person investment. The turntable will work and do its thing. It'll hold it's value due to the collection nature of it.

  • Keep in mind... (Score:4, Informative)

    by EvilSS ( 557649 ) on Friday July 07, 2023 @01:58PM (#63665881)
    Keep in mind that a regular Linn LP12 turntable can cost you $30K or more, so $60K isn't all that crazy. Not that I would pay even 1/100th of that for one but rich people gonna rich I guess. https://www.linn.co.uk/us/turn... [linn.co.uk]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by pz ( 113803 )

      I see Linn LP12 turntables for sale on eBay at between $1k and $3k. While that's still stupid money for a turntable, it isn't nearly as stratospheric as $30k or $60k.

  • Perhaps as a result of that, LoveFrom carried out the work pro bono.

    Well, I guess those savings were not passed on to the idiots paying $60k for this thing...

  • ..for rich people who will pay way over the odds simply to show other their people that they're rich.

    And he's not even doing it for Apple any more.

  • My good taste and style (Score:4, Funny)

    by Walt Dismal ( 534799 ) on Friday July 07, 2023 @02:28PM (#63665989)
    When I offer my houseguests my Jony Ive-designed toilet paper, I am proud to show them my good taste. The TP is soft, smooth, stylish, pretty good at wiping butt. For $500 a roll, it had better be. When I accidently drag a length of it behind me at charity events I know that the people are pointing at me because they know I appreciate design quality.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Klivian ( 850755 )
      Sorry friend, you obviously got scammed. Sounds like you got the cheap Chinese knock-off. The real Jony Ive-designed toilet paper,has a semi-glossy surface and looks utter amazing in the TP holder.And due to this surface, the beautiful pristine look is very resistant to stains.

  • Aluminuminium?

  • If they wanted this to be something actually approaching the value their price is putting on it, they'd make it a scanning turntable (capable of optically scanning record surfaces into 3d models for a true lossless playback) or at the very least, a laser turntable that uses lasers to read and play vinyl without subjecting it to needle wear and tear. I realize that this company apparently handmakes their products and that people put a value on that (though exactly why, I've never been clear on, because peopl

    • Except it's been tried and as a technology it has fundamentally failed. Laser turntables don't address one of the main issues (wow and flutter caused by imprecise spinning of the vinyl), introduce new issues (tracking the groove), and make an existing issue worse (being non-contact it doesn't clear the groove of dust and this is what fundamentally killed the technology).

      You can buy laser turntables. They are rare, and for their price easily outclassed by turntables costing less than 1/4.

  • typeface, a charity clown nose and "the future of Airbnb."

    I'm not trying to be a hater, but I wouldn't call a font that nobody asked for, a plastic ball, and a 2 year old vague partnership announcement "very busy" for an entire firm.

    Also it doesnt seem anyone is paying for these projects (except him).

  • Guessing it probably won't work any better than my Pioneer PL-560 from 1985 that I still have -- which cost ~$300, not $60k.

    I replaced the original receiver/amp a few years ago with a Sony STR-DA3200ES and set everything up with my TV and Blue-ray, etc... as a home theater using the two 150w CS-C9000 speakers, also from 1985, (and other newer ones.).

  • will soon party while listening to vinyl on an over-priced turn table
  • You know, additional bathroom, kitchen and lounge decor! Who need to play records? Might damage the turntable. After all, what's money for? Oh, wait! Money? I don't have any! Why does this problem keep coming up?
  • Rounded corners, a circular button replacing a rocker, and a new hinge. Bravo.
  • Even if I had a trillion dollars I wouldn't have any interest.
  • When will Ive take on Edison cylinders?

  • In reality, he hasn't really been that busy. Jony Ives is not good at designing or engineering things.

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