Bipartisan Measure Aims to Force Release of UFO Records (nytimes.com) 67
Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is proposing legislation to create a commission with the power to declassify government documents related to UFOs and extraterrestrial matters. The New York Times reports: The measure offers the possibility of pushing back against the conspiracy theories that surround discussions of U.F.O.s and fears that the government is hiding critical information from the public. The legislation, which Mr. Schumer will introduce as an amendment to the annual defense policy bill, has bipartisan support, including that of Senator Mike Rounds, Republican of South Dakota, and Senator Marco Rubio, Republican of Florida, who has championed legislation that has forced the government to release a series of reports on unidentified phenomena. Support in the House is also likely. On Wednesday, the chamber included a narrower measure (PDF) in its version of the annual defense bill that would push the Pentagon to release documents about unidentified aerial phenomena.
The Senate measure sets a 300-day deadline for government agencies to organize their records on unidentified phenomena and provide them to the review board. President Biden would appoint the nine-person review board, subject to Senate approval. Senate staff members say the intent is to select a group of people who would push for disclosure while protecting sensitive intelligence collection methods. [...] Under Mr. Schumer's legislation, the president could decide to delay material the commission has chosen to release based on national security concerns. But the measure would establish a timetable to release documents and codify the presumption that the material should be public. "You now will have a process through which we will declassify this material," said Allison Biasotti, a spokeswoman for Mr. Schumer.
The Senate measure sets a 300-day deadline for government agencies to organize their records on unidentified phenomena and provide them to the review board. President Biden would appoint the nine-person review board, subject to Senate approval. Senate staff members say the intent is to select a group of people who would push for disclosure while protecting sensitive intelligence collection methods. [...] Under Mr. Schumer's legislation, the president could decide to delay material the commission has chosen to release based on national security concerns. But the measure would establish a timetable to release documents and codify the presumption that the material should be public. "You now will have a process through which we will declassify this material," said Allison Biasotti, a spokeswoman for Mr. Schumer.
Look! UFOs! (Score:3, Insightful)
Please stop paying attention to the corrupt government officials! The possibility that a UFO might have aliens on it is far more important than trivial things like the massive transfer of wealth to the 1% and the cratering of our economy!
Re: Look! UFOs! (Score:2)
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Be honest, if you were an alien species and looked at our species, could you point to anything that would make us worth saving? Or would you rather be waiting around the corner to move in when (not if) the current occupants have taken themselves out of the gene pool so you're ready to move in and create facts before anyone else could call dibs?
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could you point to anything that would make us worth saving?
No, not really [joyreactor.com].
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Oh, projecting human sensibilities and motivations to aliens. How insightful!
The sad state of the nerds these days....
Read something from Stanislaw Lem, sir. Regarding aliens and first contact, I recommend (if you can find it in English) his literature essay reviewing Strugatski's "Roadside picnic".
The other day I listened to an interview with the Prime minister of Israel. He mentioned that he never reads novels, but instead reads history a lot. But after he was recommended (and read) a novel about a
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So the Theater of Living Arts is screwing with people? Who knew?
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...because of creating something that is smarter than all humans combined....
To paraphrase Qui-gon: "The ability to statistically predict which symbol usually follow its predecessor does not make one intelligent." It makes one a calculator able to accurately follow detailed instructions very quickly. There's a word for that, but it eludes me for the moment.
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Don't worry, the Aliens aren't worth saving either, and they know it. The part you should be worried about is that means they won't even act in their own self interest if inaction means destroying both our species.
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Aliens hate it when you anthropomorphize them, but since we're going there: to an outside observer, humanity would no doubt be the most fascinating species on the planet. Humans have particularly elaborate mating displays, nest building, social organization etc. On the other hand, humanity is causing a catastrophic mass extinction among the rest of the biosphere. A long-term observer / subscriber to galactic discovery channel would let the cataclysm play out to see what happens. When a predatory species gro
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Hard to say but so far my track record on being proven right long after the discussion has moved on is very good.
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> Maybe they're here to save us?
No, for two reasons:
1. Human history is filled with "victim mentality". No one is going to "save you " unless you get off your ass and do the work yourself. i.e. Faith without Works is DEAD, and Know Thyself. Treating an external symptom never solves an internal problem.
2. The Galactic's Federation of Light Prime Directive (yes, like Star Trek) prevents (direct) interference in an spiritually under-developed species unless they collectively ask for contact. The world is
I see FOUR humors! (Score:2)
UFOs won't give you covid
PHAH! of course not!
/jk because these are the times we live in. sheesh.
It is long been well known that COMETS [wikipedia.org] spread plague! [ox.ac.uk]
As you can see, I have done my own research and know what I'm talking about.
with a big, fat
Re:Look! UFOs! (Score:4)
Re:Look! UFOs! (Score:4, Insightful)
Except the whole reason they do it, is to gain votes.
Stop calling politicians stupid. We're stupid. They just do what we tell them. The next time some anti-American criminal says something anti-American or criminal, remember that they're saying it because We The People want anti-American criminals running our government, and we punish candidates for being too American or too law-abiding.
That R-or-D party that you hate more than the other R-or-D party? They're legitimately a major party, because they get about half the country to vote for them. If stupid is what it takes, stupid they'll give you.
At least call their voters stupid. If you're going to speak truth to power, then target the actual power: fuckwits like you and me.
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Makes you reconsider which party's voters are stupider. Those voters need to wise up and look deeper at their candidates than just their labels. And the "D" party is at fault not avoiding allowing this to happen, repeatedly.
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Lately there is a trend of politicians running as "D" then switching parties to "R".
Solid evidence that the D party has really gone off of the deep-end in the last few years (see critiques by Bill Maher and Dave Chappelle for more evidence).
Re:Look! UFOs! (Score:4, Insightful)
I've closely followed politics my entire life and never seen anything like the steady drip of UFO nonsense coming from the government the past few years. I honestly can't imagine what the motivation could be other than intentional misdirection.
Re:Look! UFOs! (Score:5, Insightful)
It isn't government wide, it is merely the critters in Congress sensing an issue of which they can make an issue. UFOs are popular, there's no explanation for them, it costs next to nothing in the budget. That's like catnip to those critters.
Re:Look! UFOs! (Score:4, Interesting)
I've closely followed politics my entire life and never seen anything like the steady drip of UFO nonsense coming from the government the past few years. I honestly can't imagine what the motivation could be other than intentional misdirection.
Intentional misdirection is a big part of it - you are correct. I recall there was a frenzy back in the 1960's when I was a kid. Even then, I realized that a whole lot of bullshit going on.
I could create a UFO by throwing a lens out of focus and allowing the image to form on a piece of paper when playing with a camera obscura. This latest nonsense is fueled by the idea that US fighter pilots are knowledgable in everything, and if they say something is something, then they have spoken the unassailable truth.
When in fact, Fighter pilots are an impressive breed with exceptional skills but not UFO experts any more than they are bigfoot experts. I watched a fighter pilot speak about things they've seen, and came to the realization that at least he had almost no optics knowledge.
But so many of the same old disproven things are being re-hashed, out of focus iris patterns, superluminal motion, kookoo conspiracies, and diverting. Nothing changed much, just people with odd ideas, and those who might take advantage of them.
Gotta go now - We've found a connection between Bigfoot, HAARP, UFOs, and paranormal activities. This time it's for real...
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Most people don't think a thing can happen until it already has.
Re:Look! UFOs! (Score:5, Interesting)
It's worse than that. If they can convince people that there is a Deep State conspiracy to cover up aliens, it will be easier to convince them that the next election was stolen by the same.
Re:Look! UFOs! (Score:5, Funny)
Rep. Jim Jordan: This House Oversight Committee will come to order. The ranking member and myself will each be allowed 5 minutes opening remarks.
Rep JJ: : Double, double toil and trouble....
Ranking Member: Get on with it, muppet.
Rep JJ: : Ms Marjorie Greene, you are first up for questions.
Marjorie Greene: Okay General, tell us what are these UFOs?
General Puff-n-Huff: I cannot Ms Greene, and they are called Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAPs).
MG: Skip the nomen-name-ature, General. What are they?
G. PnH: It's hard to say, they do unspeakable things.
MG: What kind of unspeakable things?
G. PnH: I cannot say, they are unspeakable.
MG: Cut the crap, are they aliens?
G. PnH: Well, they do speak Spanish.
(Gen.'s aids start smiling viciously)
MG: Stop humoring me. Now, these UFOs, have you actually met any of their occupants?
G. PnH: Well, there was one little feller. He was a bit odd.
MG: Odd in what way?
G. PnH: He...uhhh... he wanted us to take him to our leader....errr....you.
MG: Me?! (now screeching) WHAT DID YOU TELL HIM???
G. PnH: We told him we didn't give out that kind of information, so we showed him Google Maps.
(General's staff now crying with laughter behind the General)
MG: HOLY SHIT!!!
G. PnH: It's okay. He already knew about Google Maps. Anyhow, he lent us one of their Jewish space lasers.
(General's staff are now falling out of their chairs with laughter)
MG: Well, how does it work?
G. PnH: We aren't sure yet, but we think it turns regular police into Nancy Pelosi's Gazpacho Police.
MG: I knew it!! I knew it!! (looks around at the doors nervously) What do they do?
G. PnH: Mostly they take each other out on same-sex dates.
MG: It turns them gay?
G. PnH: Yep, we call it the Gay Ray. I have one here (pulls out an evil looking device from his attache case and points it at MG).
MG runs screaming out of the room. The General, bless his twisted little heart, gets an evil grin on his face and starts pointing it in turn at members of the committee. A stampede forms a screaming scrum at the door.
G. PnH: Damn! Now that's what I call a weapon.
The Democrats, all of whom remained, rise and give him a standing ovation.
Ranking Member: So what does it really do, General?
G. PhH presses a tab and out pops a Pez.
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> the corrupt government officials
But not the ones working for DoE and the oil companies simultaneously, right?
But not the ones working for DoD and the MIC simultaneously, right?
But not the ones working for NIH and Big Pharma simultaneously, right?
"Never has any group of men had so much to tell and so little to say." - President Eisenhower
You wouldn't believe how many people have independently lined up behind Grush - the guy who was cleared on over 2000 SAP'S, USAP'S, and WUSAP's.
Some people are so afrai
Way to go Republicans (Score:3)
Taking a conspiracy cult and turning it into a national security threat in hopes of holding on to a bit more power.
Releasing UFO information tells competing nations how effective (or ineffective) their clandestine observation attempts are. This is not information you want released to the world if you want to keep them guessing for your own benefit.
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You do know Chuck Schumer, the leader of this initiative, is the Democrat Senate Majority Leader, right? And that the White House is controlled by Democrats?
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You do know Chuck Schumer, the leader of this initiative, is the Democrat Senate Majority Leader, right? And that the White House is controlled by Democrats?
The important question is where is Hunter Biden's laptop in this whole thing?
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Now it all makes sense. The laptop dropped the baggie of coke that was found in the whitehouse.
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You do know Chuck Schumer, the leader of this initiative, is the Democrat Senate Majority Leader, right? And that the White House is controlled by Democrats?
Don't let facts get in the way of the discussion. Unarticulated tangential feelings and impassioned grunts for the win.
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What will this fix? (Score:5, Insightful)
I see no scenario that is a win for anyone.
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I see no scenario that is a win for anyone.
Just the conspiracy theorists.
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I see no scenario that is a win for anyone.
Just the conspiracy theorists.
Pretty much this.
No matter what the result of this is, nothing is more important to a conspiracy theorist than preserving their false beliefs. They will simply move the goalposts so that they can continue to claim that the government is hiding something, This bill could reveal that, yes, we really did recover a flying saucer at Roswell and dissected the aliens on board, and the conspiracy theorists will still say "Yes, but what ELSE is the government not telling us?"
You can't reason with a conspiracy theori
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what you stated is only true if the release of info doesn't lead to anything tangible or that can be independently verified.
basically, yea, if your assumption is you can't trust the government, then a release by those people that relies only on their word is not going to change the status quo. obviously. but that can be applied for any bill or anything. at that point of reasoning, you have already given up on those people who would never trust the government and so have left the realm of any kind of reaso
The CIA hacked congress (Score:2)
As is universally recognised, and it got away with it. No criminal charges, etc. That's a good working definition of there being a deep state whom we can't trust. The only debate therefore is: 'What are they up to?' And the real question is whether we can do anything about them.
https://www.theguardian.com/wo... [theguardian.com]
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I see no scenario that is a win for anyone.
This is like saying there are two holes in the boat that you and some other guy are in. The other guy says "I am not going to patch the hole! The hole is fake!" So instead of you patching yours and then moving on to patch his, you just both die. Real smart.
Idjits (Score:2)
The new "flag" (Score:2)
The other such is thing is voting on laws to honor the flag.
Bipartisanship (Score:2)
They're making a reasonable fist of AI regulation, and there's a head of steam for effective regulation of the tech industry. However this probably won't last.
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I agree about tech industry regulation not lasting, especially if that includes social media.
Like trying to regulate the oil industry or the banking industry. Too much money and power behind potential pushback.
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Reasonable fist is an English usage that you've presumably not come across!
Here's an example
https://www.theguardian.com/gl... [theguardian.com]
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>The other such is thing is voting on laws to honor the flag
Flag 'respect' laws bother me a lot, same as blasphemy laws.
If I want to wrap a Quran in an American flag and roast marshmallows over the blaze, that ought to result in offending some people who consider me to be an ass from that point on, and unless I'm burning them in an unsafe manner that should be the end of it.
In fact, I think those things (especially religious texts in general) ought to be burned once in a while just so you can have the cr
fuck the times (Score:1)
Pandering (Score:2)
Pandering... to morons. But, at least Schumer can do something other than threaten the lives of supreme court justices.
Interesting players involved in all of this ... (Score:3)
I've been trying to follow this UFO thing as I get time to keep up with it, because I've always had an interest in it. Really, the big difference between what's happening right now and everything I can think of in the past is, we've actually got politicians (on both sides of the political aisle) looking into it in a procedural fashion.
If whistle-blower Grusch is to be believed, he's essentially fingered the military-industrial complex as the players in possession of and studying the alien spacecraft -- largely without Federal government's awareness.
The "traditional" UFO conspiracy claims really amounted to the same old collection of "conveniently unverifiable" stories, either from non-credible witnesses babbling on about whatever strange lights they saw in the sky, or more interestingly? The more credible types who already work in fields requiring certain amounts of trust. In that later group, you always had to weed out all the grifters who set themselves up to be much more credible than they really were. (Bob Lazar is a great example. All these impressive claims he was a Physicist and worked in top secret facilities. Yet closer examination showed he really only took some electronics courses in college ... never attended the more prestigious universities he claimed to attend, and there's no record of him working for the government at all, in any of the capacities he stated. Not only that, but he ran brothels in Nevada twice. Not exactly what you'd expect from a high-caliber researcher, right?) Looks like Lazar just needed to fabricate a tall tale in order to sell his books where he put together a collection of existing UFO stories and claims made by others before. Made it all into a big "expose" type story, all about him as the central character, and profited.
But yeah -- it makes a lot of sense why rumors persist, yet evidence is severely lacking, when you consider most people were focused on the assumption it's our military who has alien tech and is studying it. Area 51 must have had alien spaceships because so many people reported strange things flying from there and they have high levels of security. Uh-uh.... or MAYBE it's all explained by the fact that was their base for testing experimental military aircraft. Which was really more plausible?
I think this new fingering of major aerospace companies like Lockheed Martin as the ones possessing the craft is really an interesting twist. It makes a lot of sense that even IF the military shot down a UFO a time or two, or they just discovered crashes -- they'd let military contractors handle it. (Does the Air Force build its own jet fighters? No! It just pays other people to do that for them. So who would be able to best use anything gleaned from reverse-engineering a UFO? The contractors who build the things the military flies.)
But specifically? Keep an eye on folks like Representative Mike Turner (10th. District of Ohio). This guy holds a special position as "Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence", so he gets a lot of say in what information is controlled vs what gets released. Thing is, he has a long history of accepting campaign contributions from the likes of Raytheon, General Dynamics and Lockheed Martin. His district contains Wright-Patterson AFB. And what did he just do? He fought to "take all the teeth" out of this bipartisan legislation demanding the UFO information is revealed. (He's the same one who recently did an interview stating there was "no evidence of UFOs from space" in response to the Grusch interviews.) Why's he trying so hard to make sure nobody pays any more attention to this issue if there's really nothing to be found?
It's complicated! (Score:2)
Thank you for a very informative post. What this suggests is that there is a struggle for influence within the military industrial complex, with parts wanting to allow some degree of revelation, and others fighting to keep things quiet.
It's always worth remembering how out of control parts of the 'deep state' are; this was clearly demonstrated when the CIA got caught hacking Congress and walked away unpunished. https://www.theguardian.com/wo... [theguardian.com]
So, Sagan was a plagiarist? (Score:2)
The Lizard-Heads were right though, in their assessment that most (in their words) "Stoopid Hoominz" would be too stupid to understand Sagan's signal. They are now w