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Music

After KISS's Final Show, They'll Become Digital Avatars From Industrial Light & Magic (go.com) 93

Posted by EditorDavid from the god-gave-rock-and-roll-to-you dept.
Gene Simmons is 74 years old. But as the singer for the classic rock band KISS left the stage after their final show, USA Today reports there was a surprise: in the most on-brand KISS move even by KISS standards, before the quartet likely hit their dressing rooms after disappearing on stage in the blizzard of smoke and confetti that accompanied the set-closing "Rock and Roll All Nite," a message blasted on the video screens: "A new KISS era starts now."

Digital avatars of the band followed, playing their anthem, "God Gave Rock and Roll To You."
ABC News reports: The avatars were created by George Lucas' special-effects company, Industrial Light & Magic, in partnership with Pophouse Entertainment Group, the latter of which was co-founded by ABBA's Björn Ulvaeus. The two companies recently teamed up for the "ABBA Voyage" show in London, in which fans could attend a full concert by the Swedish band — as performed by their digital avatars. Per Sundin, CEO of Pophouse Entertainment, says this new technology allows Kiss to continue their legacy for "eternity." He says the band wasn't on stage during virtual performance because "that's the key thing," of the future-seeking technology. "Kiss could have a concert in three cities in the same night across three different continents. That's what you could do with this."

In order to create their digital avatars, who are depicted as a kind of superhero version of the band, Kiss performed in motion capture suits.

Experimentation with this kind of technology has become increasingly common in certain sections of the music industry. In October K-pop star Mark Tuan partnered with Soul Machines to create an autonomously automated "digital twin" called "Digital Mark." In doing so, Tuan became the first celebrity to attach their likeness to OpenAI's GPT integration, artificial intelligence technology that allows fans to engage in one-on-one conversations with Tuan's avatar. Aespa, the K-pop girl group, frequently perform alongside their digital avatars — the quartet is meant to be viewed as an octet with digital twins. Another girl group, Eternity, is made up entirely of virtual characters — no humans necessary.
Kiss frontman Paul Stanley told ABC News that "The band deserves to live on because the band is bigger than we are."
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After KISS's Final Show, They'll Become Digital Avatars From Industrial Light & Magic More

After KISS's Final Show, They'll Become Digital Avatars From Industrial Light & Magic

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  • I'll purchase the tickets with an avatar of my cash.

  • I'd assumed... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by myowntrueself ( 607117 ) on Sunday December 03, 2023 @06:08PM (#64051553)

    I'd assumed that the various members of KISS were constantly recycled, with the makeup you wouldn't even know if they'd been replaced over the years.
    Just constantly updating them with new members and pretending they are the same original guys, like some kind of immortals.

    • That is, or was, the case with The Blue Man Group. They were a big act in Vegas a couple of decades ago, not sure if they still exist. Various band members came and went; it didn't matter because they were all just bald musicians painted blue, and since their names were never given they could easily be replaced once they become uppity and demanded a decent pay for their work.

      • Re:I'd assumed... (Score:4, Informative)

        by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Sunday December 03, 2023 @06:50PM (#64051679)

        That is, or was, the case with The Blue Man Group. They were a big act in Vegas a couple of decades ago, not sure if they still exist. Various band members came and went; it didn't matter because they were all just bald musicians painted blue, and since their names were never given they could easily be replaced once they become uppity and demanded a decent pay for their work.

        Blue Man Group most certainly exists [blueman.com]. They started in Boston then branched out. I've only seen them in NYC and Vegas so need to hit the other cities.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Potor ( 658520 )

      I'd assumed that the various members of KISS were constantly recycled, with the makeup you wouldn't even know if they'd been replaced over the years.

      Although I have little-to-no interest in Kiss, your suspicion is completely unwarranted. They wore face-paint, not masks.

      • I'd assumed that the various members of KISS were constantly recycled, with the makeup you wouldn't even know if they'd been replaced over the years.

        Although I have little-to-no interest in Kiss, your suspicion is completely unwarranted. They wore face-paint, not masks.

        The makeup they wear may as well be masks though, it completely obscures their faces.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Potor ( 658520 )

          The makeup they wear may as well be masks though, it completely obscures their faces.

          I cannot blame you for not caring, but if you looked at the makeup you could clearly tell who was who. Moreover, their makeup of course did not change the members' height, face shape, or musculature. You could always completely tell who was who. In fact, the band announced whenever they changed members.

    • Blue Man Group use humans and update their performances with new contents.

    • Years ago Gene basically said something along those likes, "There will always be an Eng^H^H^Ha KISS"

      Recycling Peter's and Ace's personas, though, was a dick move.

  • in the most on-brand KISS move even by KISS standa (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NFN_NLN ( 633283 ) on Sunday December 03, 2023 @06:08PM (#64051555)

    in the most on-brand KISS move even by KISS standards

    Funny because it's true.

    "Kiss could have a concert in three cities in the same night across three different continents. That's what you could do with this."

    If they're just virtual avatars then the price of tickets should rightfully plummet. It's basically just a fancy 3D movie.

    • Gorillaz would like to have a word with you.

    • It's basically just a fancy 3D movie.

      The cost of a concert has zero to do with paying the people to sing on the stage. It may shock you to know but concerts which cost more than about $30 have many hours of setup, equipment, set design, all requiring lots of people to work on stage in order to make them happen.

      You're not paying just for some guy to sing to you, if you want that just go to your local pub.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Junta ( 36770 )

        The cost of a concert has zero to do with paying the people to sing on the stage.

        To the extent that the *cost* might be dominated by other factors, the *price* of a concert has *everything* to do with the people singing on stage.

        No one is going to pay the typical arena ticket price to watch "some guy" from your local pub no matter how fancy the venue and effects may be.

        • [Milli Vanilli has entered the chat.]

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by DarkOx ( 621550 )

          No one is going to pay the typical arena ticket price to watch "some guy" from your local pub no matter how fancy the venue and effects may be.

          Why do you even know the name of the performers at the circus or who half the cast is in play ahead of time?

          No! for the most part most of the audience does not. Not sure why music necessarily has to be different, a good show is a good show..

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Junta ( 36770 )

            Circus and plays generally do not command the same ticket prices. When they do, it's because it features celebrity performers or the very specific act is itself famous, and very specifically the act. Folks need *some* well known reference point to calibrate expectations to drive demand.

            If it was ticket for "Bob at the local Arena", then you aren't going to get takers. Similarly if it was "A circus", you aren't going to get big tickets.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by DarkOx ( 621550 )

              But you don't got to see 'a play' you go to see 'A Christmas Carrol' and sure enough tickets are indeed $200 even though the cast is the local theater company.

              The company has a good reputation, even though the individual players remain largely unknown to all but the most dedicated patrons (you season ticket holders etc).

              You are not going to see "Bob at Luke Oil Stadium" you are going to "Kiss at Luke Oil Stadium" and someplace way below the line in the tiny print it will say "Performing Thrusday - Saturday

    • in the most on-brand KISS move even by KISS standards

      Funny because it's true.

      One of my favorite musical memories is Scott Ian saying if he could be anything, he would be a cartoon. Because that's what Gene Simmons was.

      "Kiss could have a concert in three cities in the same night across three different continents. That's what you could do with this."

      If they're just virtual avatars then the price of tickets should rightfully plummet. It's basically just a fancy 3D movie.

      You appear unaware of how this works. New technology means BIG increases in ticket prices. Never mind that they only have to capture the performance once and can replay it for eternity.

  • More enshittification ensues (Score:4, Insightful)

    by silvergig ( 7651900 ) on Sunday December 03, 2023 @06:12PM (#64051569)
    So, concerts can now be played and replayed, hundreds of times a night, in hundreds of cities, for outrageous prices. "Let's go see KISS tonight!" "Wait, we saw them last week!". "What about Motley Crue?" "Nah, that was 2 weeks ago"..... "Oh, let's see Pink Floyd again, then!" Any nuance or meaning to seeing a real concert then slips away.

    • Re:More enshittification ensues (Score:5, Insightful)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 ) on Sunday December 03, 2023 @06:28PM (#64051607)
      Wait until you hear about these "movies" they are trying to push on us. Totally ruining the experience of seeing a live performance!

    • Well you'll still get the true concert experience, like waiting in line for the restroom, paying $12 for a drink, then having some asshole and his buddies stand up in front of you and block your view. It's just that instead of the band members, it's a recording of 3d holographic avatars you won't be able to see.

    • Just wait till we have AI scan all the concerts to emulate body movements and small differences in how instruments sound. Then chatGPT or some other LLM can write the dialog for the avatars to say in their emulated voices.

    • There's more to a show than having a bunch of people come and sing to you. No you won't be getting KISS every week as it in fact takes days to setup a venue for different events and that doesn't magically go away because the main singer is an avatar.

      They aren't the first to do this, not by a decade+ or so, and there's no reason to believe that they will be the first to suddenly have their events commoditised as it hasn't happened with literally anyone else either.

    • I'm having a hard enough time justifying going see large venue live acts as it is. Seeing what amounts to a replay of a previous performance, or worse, just a CGI animation of a previous performance, holds no attraction for me. Maybe for the younger generations? But I have a hard time seeing how young folks would give a shit about Kiss one way or another.

      Gene Simmons has been floating this idea for years now, and I guess kudos to him for trying to find a business scenario in which he can sit at home and ani

      • Graceland is a successful tourist attraction that draws 600,000 visitors a year. Not so bad. The Liberace Museum is not; it closed in 2010 after the visitor account dwindled to 50,000/year from a peak of 450,000. Elvis's popularity has endured better than Liberace's, and Liberace's museum likely also suffered because there are so many other things to do in Las Vegas.

        The virtual concerts could be a success if they settle into a niche similar to tribute bands. A fraction of the experience for a fraction of th

    • So, concerts can now be played and replayed, hundreds of times a night, in hundreds of cities, for outrageous prices. "Let's go see KISS tonight!" "Wait, we saw them last week!". "What about Motley Crue?" "Nah, that was 2 weeks ago"..... "Oh, let's see Pink Floyd again, then!" Any nuance or meaning to seeing a real concert then slips away.

      Yeah, this stuff isn't a concert. It's the modern equivalent of "laser shows" we used to have when I was a Yout. Playing a Pink Floyd album while colorful laser shows were shot through clouds of dry ice. Not really a concert. The whole point of going to a concert is to experience people playing.

  • Hatsune Miku has entered the chat (Score:3)

    by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Sunday December 03, 2023 @06:21PM (#64051583)

    Lots of talk about digital avatars on stage without mentioning the original? For get October this year. Hatsune Miku has been a digital avatar for well over a decade including on stage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • Kissinger (Score:3)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Sunday December 03, 2023 @06:22PM (#64051593) Homepage Journal

    Just to be clear - it was Kissinger who died, not the KISS Singer.

    Though now I understand what happened with the Bentley. (Very sad).

  • I mean, if you have all those old acts continuing to play in a now digital format, the new people coming up have to now compete with ghost.

    It's one thing to do a cover song or album but this takes it to an entirely new level. Especially since online live shows are now becoming a thing amongst young people.

    I personally wouldn't want to watch a concert on a live stream. I go to shows for the full experience and it's as much about being with the fans as it is about the music. Honestly, the music quality is bet

    • I mean, if you have all those old acts continuing to play in a now digital format, the new people coming up have to now compete with ghost.

      The old people who are going to see KISS are not the people who'd be going to see the "new people" anyway.

    • My teen doesn't know any of: Elvis, Duran Duran, KISS, or pretty much any other music act that is older than last week. Bonus points if the music is AI generated Japanese Technopop available only on TikTok. She was also shocked and laughed when I explained what a phonebook is. Time moves forward.

      Fear not, these digital corpses will not take a single penny from future music acts.

      • They don't know about them YET. If those people are made into digital acts and whole news acts are made with this digital persona then your teen could very well discover them through these various services.

        I know as a teen, when I discovered "old" music it was different then current music and often times I enjoyed it. The thing was, the old stuff was basically only on the radio and you really only came across it by sheer luck. Now an algorithm could drive you that direction and directly compete with modern

        • AI generated Japanese technopop Elvis? D'oh! My brain just exploded and my stomach hurts really bad now! :-)

          I see what you're saying. And it could happen. But at least in her current stage I know it won't happen. Most of her music is so talentless that she'll soon be dancing to random static. As long as she found it on TikTok and it's AI generated random static.

          And stay off my lawn, dag nab it! Kids today!

    • Dude, bullshit. By this 'logic' nobody should ever listen to music older than ten years.

      Get out of here that Beethoven is 'stifling cultural progression.'

  • the audience is as old as they are.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Potor ( 658520 )
      Basically a constant in music, if not a tautology.

      • A friend was recently on the sound desk of a Pink Floyd tribute band. After it he heard a 10 year old boy berating his dad for not introducing him to their music earlier. The best is truly worth preserving in this way.

  • You know, like color-by-number like pictures of bored looking rockstars!
    Besides being blinded by a botched up lasershow, I'll likely also be deaf after the next show.

  • No ego on that stage I see (Score:3)

    by Slashythenkilly ( 7027842 ) on Sunday December 03, 2023 @07:41PM (#64051775)
    KISS died in the mid 80s and no one told them it was over.

    • Their sold out show begs to differ. I mean you may not like them, but judging by you UID you weren't even around in the 80s and are likely talking out of your arse. But hey it's cool to hate things these days, so have an insightful mod.

      • I appreciate that but dont really care about internet points. You shouldnt assume anything about my age or interests based on my "profile." I dont hate KISS anymore than Gwar for their over-the top shows but the ego on Gene is ridiculous. Sold-out doesnt include ticket price which at my arena was pretty cheap.
        • Bingo. Some of us used to post anonymous on /. exclusively without worrying about creating "tracking data" for "the man." And you're right, KISS died in the 80s, when we learned what they looked like without makeup.

  • Hatsune Miku at Home: Gene_Simones.nft

  • Fuck Gene Simmons (Score:2, Informative)

    by DaFallus ( 805248 )
    Gene Simmons is a talentless has-been piece of shit human being. No telling how many people with actual talent have been suppressed due to the existence of this fucking vacuous windbag.

  • No virtual Gene Simmons could be the same narcissistic, useless prick.

  • When I go to a concert, I want to see Live People, playing live instruments. Not some digitally pre-recorded stuff.

    Why go to a show anyway then - the other people? You'd be better off listening and watching it at home on your own system, unless you really need 120+ dBs, I guess.

    • You can get 120db on a home system. Set you back a few grand for the not-shitty version but doable if being deaf is your thing.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jvkjvk ( 102057 )

        True. I would think it just wouldn't have the bass, though, of monster bass speakers that cause heart palpitations. Although you are much closer in a home system due to the inverse square law. I don't particularly want to perform a experiment about it, though.

        • True. I would think it just wouldn't have the bass, though, of monster bass speakers that cause heart palpitations. Although you are much closer in a home system due to the inverse square law. I don't particularly want to perform a experiment about it, though.

          You could place a single one of the 18" subs they use in huge arrays in an arena and it would be plenty to give you that chest thump. It doesn't take near as much power to slam you back in a living room as it does in a big arena. As a guy who's played guitar in thrash and death metal bands for decades, trust me. Don't ever set up the big PA in the rehearsal-sized space. Only gotta learn that lesson once. It's like being boxed from every direction. Cool for about three seconds, then you need a break.

          • I have a pair of ok 12" subs which can rattle the windows through the entire house if I turn them up. 18" would make the plaster come off the walls and ceiling :-)

    • I feel the same way, but I do think there is likely a market for this.

      If the band is retired and doesn't tour any more, or is dead, then a certain demographic might go for the nostalgia and spectacle, as long as the price is reasonable (by which I mean lower than what it would have cost to see the band live, inflation adjusted). While I don't know a lot of people who enjoy an arena full of strangers, a lot of people like to go do activities with other people they know. So there would undoubtedly be a social

    • Not me! I'm going to make my OWN avatar, and send it to see all the shows I'm too lazy to go to. It'll be avatars all the way down!

  • ...in which fans could attend a full concert by the Swedish band — as performed by their digital avatars

    So basically, NOT attending a concert at all. That's fine, but I'm paying the going rate for streaming (1/10c or so per song, IIRC), because that's basically what this is. Or watching a youtube video.

  • Anyone else remember when a smooth landing was welcomed by applause? Ever since autoland, folks are already checking their phones on touchdown. I am so looking forward to seeing concerts like that. /s

    They forego the whole excitement of a band performing live - for both the band, who gets to harvest appreciation from the fans in the form of the interaction (applause, dancing, sing along,..) and for everybody a great party.

    Concerts is emotion for bands and audience alike, and avatars reproducing a copypasta a

  • No, mega bands will live on in the form of cover bands around the world. Go see sometimes quite good imitations & performances by imposters in small to medium venues with all the noise, smoke, alcohol, & atmosphere that you don't get at huge stadium gigs. Someone's gonna come up with a way to turn cover bands into an IP licensing business if they haven't already.

  • ...or maybe people are stupid for accepting virtual product. People should just accept the fact KISS is over, thank god. Bands live on through their music...this is just shameless bullshit.

    Fucking idiots.

  • There are at least two different KISS tribute bands consisting of little people. They could go the Spinal Tap route and make the show seem bigger by making the performers smaller!

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] shows what ABBA looks like. Some of it just looks like a large screen, and this is an edited video put out by ABBA themselves so ymmv on how it looks in real life. They do not allow any cameras or filming [reddit.com] which is concerning, but then maybe it looks better in person and they don't want customers scared away with a shaky tiktok video zoomed in on the screens? It's hard to say, maybe from 50 feet away it would look very real, but a cameraphone's video would not give a hone

  • Let's just call this what it is: Chuck-E-Cheese-ification

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