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Television Privacy

Your Smart TV Knows What You're Watching (themarkup.org) 164

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: If you bought a new smart TV during any of the holiday sales, there's likely to be an uninvited guest watching along with you. The most popular smart TVs sold today use automatic content recognition (ACR), a kind of ad surveillance technology that collects data on everything you view and sends it to a proprietary database to identify what you're watching and serve you highly targeted ads. The software is largely hidden from view, and it's complicated to opt out. Many consumers aren't aware of ACR, let alone that it's active on their shiny new TVs. If that's you, and you'd like to turn it off, we're going to show you how.

First, a quick primer on the tech: ACR identifies what's displayed on your television, including content served through a cable TV box, streaming service, or game console, by continuously grabbing screenshots and comparing them to a massive database of media and advertisements. Think of it as a Shazam-like service constantly running in the background while your TV is on.

These TVs can capture and identify 7,200 images per hour, or approximately two every second. The data is then used for content recommendations and ad targeting, which is a huge business; advertisers spent an estimated $18.6 billion on smart TV ads in 2022, according to market research firm eMarketer. For anyone who'd rather not have ACR looking over their shoulder while they watch, we've put together a guide to turning it off on three of the most popular smart TV software platforms in use last year. Depending on the platform, turning off ACR took us between 10 and 37 clicks.
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Your Smart TV Knows What You're Watching More

Your Smart TV Knows What You're Watching

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  • Duh. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mononymous ( 6156676 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @12:24PM (#64079187)

    What did people think the "smarts" were for? TVs were already working fine to show things before they put software in them.

    • Re:Duh. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by laie_techie ( 883464 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @12:29PM (#64079211)

      What did people think the "smarts" were for? TVs were already working fine to show things before they put software in them.

      I came to say the same thing. Anything that makes future recommendations must track current and past programs.

      • This is precisely why I dont connect my TV to the internet. I connect it to an IoT VLAN in my house. The only thing in that VLAN that can connect to the internet is my HomePod which acts as the HomeKit Hub. Everything else is just a dumb box, even HomeBridge. I exclusively use AppleTV and Playstation 5 / Xbox X on my TVs.

        I do have mDNS reflection set up so I can Airplay to my IoT network devices.
        • I do something similar. I have my LG TV connected to my LAN, but I use Pi-hole as my DHCP server, then block all traffic to and from my TV. I am amazed by how much data it wants to send.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by dwywit ( 1109409 )

            Pihole is excellent for this. Doesn't just dead-end advertising and malware, but it can dead-end telemetry, too.

    • What did people think the "smarts" were for? TVs were already working fine to show things before they put software in them.

      Smarts are for advertising.

      It's the 21st century! Just because you paid for a physical object doesn't mean you own the use of it. You must continually pay for its use . . . in advertising consumption.

  • You bought an 85" TV for $500 bucks (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @12:25PM (#64079189)
    how do you think they pulled that off? They monetized you. As always you are the product. Advertisers are desperate to keep their jobs relevant so they're always looking for new places to throw money at.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by keltor ( 99721 ) *
      The bottom of the market TVs don't seem to be Smart TVs. There are other markets in the world where there are more TVs without Smart TV stuff (sort of, they still run the same software basically and just leave out the streaming stuff.) When LG still sold their non WebOS OLED TV, it was actually a lot cheaper locally, like $300.

      • Spectre makes dumb panels without any smart apps or networking ability. 55â costs $180, 77â costs $430. Might be cheaper now.

        What is your excuse again?

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by flacco ( 324089 )

          > Spectre makes dumb panels without any smart apps or networking ability.

          This sounds like my brand - but do you mean "Sceptre"?

        • Link? Nobody seems to be selling non-'smart' TVs in the US any more.

          And I think everybody on Slashdot would prefer a non-'smart' TV.

    • I don't think that's the whole story.

      Thing is, TVs were basically commodities for decades... but then came flat panels, which were luxury products at exorbitant prices. They were expensive to manufacture, but the companies also had a healthy markup factored into the final price.

      Well, we're 20+ years into flat panel TVs and, frankly, at this point they should be commodities - but the companies that make and sell them got very used to the high markups. First thing they did to avoid this was to add in the "sma

      • There are rumors of TVs that are now being shipped with the ability to access WiFi networks other than yours. As in, they'll connect to anything they can find around you, like Comcrap's xfinitywifi networks that are all over the place.

        I don't know if those rumors are substantiated. But it's not difficult for them to do, and it's also relatively trivial to put some kind of cellular modem in a TV if they want.

        I'm not sure not connecting is adequate any more. It may be time to start disassembling new TVs an

  • It might know (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JeffOwl ( 2858633 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @12:29PM (#64079209)
    But it isn't telling anybody. It isn't connected to the internet. I have other means of sending video to the TV when I want to watch streaming services. If that isn't an option for you, Pie Hole or other similar function on your home network can mitigate this issue.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by radarskiy ( 2874255 )

      "It isn't connected to the internet."

      *You* haven't connected it to the internet. Given that the processor is completely idle most of the day, how long would it take to crack a wifi password for some available network?

      • Take your meds, my friend.

        In the real world, no company is shipping a TV that hacks wifi networks.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by Roogna ( 9643 )

          Especially when, from a cost standpoint, it's probably cheaper for them to just put a cell chip and SIM card in.

      • Given that the processor is completely idle most of the day, how long would it take to crack a wifi password for some available network?

        A long effin time. Even a fast machine with a high end graphics card will take centuries to crack a good password. My TV has the cheapest CPU they could find and there's no high end graphics card.

      • They don't even have to crack anything. Just make a deal with Comcrap, and presto, all of those 'xfinitywifi' networks are available to them.

  • Dont hook it up to the internet (Score:5, Interesting)

    by peragrin ( 659227 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @12:37PM (#64079245)

    A smart tv is useless in 5-7 years as all the apps need to be updated and are no longer supported by steaming serice.

    Much smarter ia to use a roku, apple tc etc box that can be cheaply replaced when you need to and your tv is just a display.

    This doesnt stop the situation just moves it feom the screen to secondary device. So your expensive tv doesnt become a paperweight.

    In 2012 i hooked a smart samsung up to my wifi to stream some things. Disconnwcted and set the tv wired only figuribg that would stop the tv from trying to get online.

    A few years later i noticed an unknown mac address connecting to my wifi transfering a few kilobytes and disconnecting. After searching i realized it was the tv. Which would randomly override tv settings connect online transfer data. That mac address got quickly blocked at the router. No wifi for you.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      are no longer supported by steaming serice.

      A steaming what, exactly?

      A few years later i noticed an unknown mac address connecting to my wifi transfering a few kilobytes and disconnecting.

      My router won't accept connections without the password. And it's not a public hotspot. No homeless people in RVs camping in front of my house, thank you. And no appliances sneaking onto the Internet either.

      • Sure but once you give your password to a device it.

        My wifi isnt open to all. You need 13 character password.

        I gave it the password. Decided i didnt want it online. Turned off the tv wifi. And the tv would still randomly connect years later.

        The only way to prevent is to block the mac address.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by PPH ( 736903 )

          Change your router's WiFi password.

          Or do what I did. Found an old router in the junk box. Gave it a name and password. But did not plug it into my broadband. Drives the IoT devices nuts.

      • Re:Dont hook it up to the internet (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Waffle Iron ( 339739 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @01:11PM (#64079413)

        My router won't accept connections without the password. And it's not a public hotspot. No homeless people in RVs camping in front of my house, thank you. And no appliances sneaking onto the Internet either.

        I do the same thing for now, but how long before the TV manufacturers do a deal with telecom companies to literally phone home over 5G without you having any say in the matter?

    • A smart tv is useless in 5-7 years as all the apps need to be updated and are no longer supported by steaming serice.

      Except that's not true at all. We have a 10 year old smart TV that has no problem playing Netflix natively. The app is dated and the interface sucks, but a $30 Chromecast fixed that. The TV works just fine and is very much 100% as useful as any dumb TV.

      So your expensive tv doesnt become a paperweight.

      No one is paying money for "smarts" in the TV. They are free with any good screen. In fact if you actively go and seek out a non-smart TV you may find yourself paying more for the privilege of not being able to run apps. Economies of scale matter.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by schwit1 ( 797399 )

        My 2011 Samsung 55" TV's internet streaming list used to be yuge, but all were flash based. A firmware update a few years back deleted all of them except VUDU and Pandora. Looks like planned obsolescence.

        This is the last Samsung TV I buy.

        • And yet the OP's comment is still not invalidated. You're still better off compared to having bought a dumb TV and your TV is effectively now just as functional as what the OP suggested you do: Buy a Roku or equivalent.

          Planned obsolesce is practiced by all smart TV companies, you're naïve if you think you'll punish any company by boycotting them, all you'll do is spread your money around all the equally bad cunts over your lifetime unfortunately. TVs are low volume items and boycotting is meaningless.

        • You could put a $30 Roku in it and it will be just like new. I'm not sure what the issue is.

    • Perhaps the TV was checking for firmware updates. Also you should use a password on your wifi.

  • Neither of mine are connected to the LAN, have a cellular chip. Add to that the fact that one is the monitor for my desktop while the other is connected to a SBC MCPC that streams from my separate media server, so there's no information to send even if they were connected to the Internet.

  • I'm lucky enough to have a "smart" TV that can just run in HDMI mode without needing anything for its apps to run, because I use a separate box for all the TV stuff.

    However, I do wonder when this "loophole" will be closed. Already, I wouldn't be surprised if the big names eventually lock out access to HDMI or other essential things on a TV if the TV isn't able to connect and get "firmware security updates", or when TVs get cellular connections so they can phone home without needing access to Ethernet or a

    • Re:This is why you separate the TV and box... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rogoshen1 ( 2922505 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @01:18PM (#64079441)

      Well look, it's incredibly important your TV gets connected to the internet to periodically download security updates. Despite not being connected to the internet at all, an unpatched TV is still susceptible to bad actors hacking into it.. somehow.

      But yes, snark aside I'm sure they'll resort to cellular chips to ensure that your ad viewing experience is current and that you, the user have not done anything to curtail the hard work of those advertising firms. Or some other anti-consumer behavior dressed up as being in your best interest
      >We need to connect to the internet in order to verify the HDMI device you have connected.

      I can't tell if an ever increasing hatred of technology and electronics is a symptom of getting older, or it's actually getting exponentially shittier and anti-consumer as time goes on.

      • I can't tell if an ever increasing hatred of technology and electronics is a symptom of getting older, or it's actually getting exponentially shittier and anti-consumer as time goes on.

        Yes. The answer is yes. I say that as someone who is very aware of how his old age is affecting his worldview, while still trying from time to time to take an objective look at things for the purpose of self-analysis and self-correction. Things are shittier. And getting older makes everything seem even shittier still.

        • In the 90's I use to point and laugh at people who didn't have "one of those new fangled PCs" in their house.

          Now, my wife laughed at me the other day when I said an Alexa was not allowed in our house. She compared me to the old timers living in the country with no electricity and shitting in outhouses. The scary part was I can see their point of view.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by jvkjvk ( 102057 )

            Both electricity and indoor plumbing have no downsides.

            Having a device in your home that can listen to your conversations and provide anything you do back to Amazon appears to be a big downside to an Alexa.

            I don't see how they are remotely similar.

      • Despite not being connected to the internet at all, an unpatched TV is still susceptible to bad actors hacking into it.. somehow.

        Oh, tell me about it. My TV has fallen prey to so many bad actors over the years, I can't even tell you... Fortunately they're tolerable if you're shielded by the silhouettes of Joel (or Mike, or ...) and the bots across the bottom.

      • Part of it is wisdom as well.

        That, and stuff has been getting worse and worse. For example, ~20 years ago, most appliances could actually be fixed, regardless of warranty because Sears would have parts and a service depot. New switch for that dehumidifier? Order the part, swap it out, and there would be a schematic guide. Similar with Radio Shack items. Anything sold usually had parts that could be ordered. These days, if something breaks, say an inverter board on a generator, there won't be any repla

      • Despite not being connected to the internet at all, an unpatched TV is still susceptible to bad actors hacking into it.. somehow.

        It's true; I've seen plenty of bad actors on my smart TV that has never been connected to the Internet.

  • Being morbidly curious, I wonder how this is implemented. Do they download the database to your TV, or does the TV upload a signature of a screen grab twice a second? Either way, I wonder how this affects your network usage. Two API calls a second, call it a KB each, watching for eight hours a day...carry the two...is about 50 MB a day, a GB or two a month. Probably not going to break anyone's usage cap unless you've got your TV tethered to your phone (and then you've got much bigger issues).

    Since I only wa

    • Dunno, my Roku is over 10 years old at this point (Roku 3).
      It's quite surprising how much better it works than the chintzy Roku sticks they're shitting out now. Oh a remote that works without LoS? snappy/responsive menus? Amazing.

      It's also never ever kvetched about HDCP connections. the Roku premiere I have in another room periodically spazzes out because of HDCP compliance checks, forcing me to power cycle my receiver. And that's using plex! Serving a file over my LAN! Whoever thought HDCP was a good idea

  • Is this data collection subsidizing the cost of any of these TVs? Or is this the typical "power of default"?

    I'm pretty sure none of the marketing about how easy and all-in-one the TV is says anything about sending thousands of screen shots back to the mothership to enhance your experience.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Pascoea ( 968200 )
      I'm far too lazy to look it up, but yes, Vizio (for example) openly admitted that they were collecting your data and selling it to subsidize the cost of the TV.
  • If anything connects to a network or the internet, just assume it's grabbing data about you, or what you're doing. In 2023, it's honestly just assumed that everything spies, everything lies, and everything that can will digitally molest you!

    Should we tolerate it? No, absolutely not, but if you put in legislation to prevent the digital white vans in the neighbourhood, all of a sudden that $400 50" TV, will be 500, 600, or more. The reason the average person can have a nice large TV is because they spy,

    • i'd pay an extra $100 for a TV without all the cunty bullshit tbh.
      just give me a dumb, dumb screen and HDMI.
      I don't even need useless flat speakers, or interactive menus, or any of the other other pseudo features they're pushing (that are useless and invariably disabled). just a decent, large (over 60") screen, and an HDMI input. That's it.
      Simple is good.

      • I completely agree with that, dumb can be fine. Most people I know won't pay extra because the TV it's "dumb" and doesn't spy.

      • Why?

        Why would you want to pay more for the same TV?

        Just get the smart TV and use it like a dumb screen. I've been doing that for a decade now. Works great! My TVs never are allowed to connect to the internet, all they ever see is an HDMI cable.

        You get 2 major advantages in doing this: 1) You save $100. 2) You hurt the shitheads selling smart TVs because they sell them at cost and expect to make their money with their spyware.

        • Well, that's what i'm doing currently. But! TV's are already starting to nag you for not connecting it to a network (had a Philips Roku tv pull this crap); but if I were a betting man; in a couple of years this nagging cunty bullshit will be universal; and that's assuming the tv isn't effectively bricked without a network connection -- even if you're just using HDMI as God intended. Or they'll just start shipping with embedded cellular connections, that do all the shifty bullshit behind your back (hey, ju

  • Emails: "Bad News, I broke into your smart tv, and know all the dirty movies you've been watching. Send me 5,280 bitcoin, or I'll post them to your FB page!"

  • Forget AI legislation, solve this first (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @12:58PM (#64079331) Journal

    It should be illegal to sell a consumer appliance that sends usage meta-data without clear disclosure, and without clear instructions on how to turn that feature off.

    • It should be illegal to sell a consumer appliance that sends usage meta-data without clear disclosure, and without clear instructions on how to turn that feature off.

      It is disclosed...in the privacy policies barely anyone reads.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by schwit1 ( 797399 )

        Maybe the end user didn't get a chance to read it. Maybe you bought the TV used or had an installer set it up for you.

        I also have to wonder if there are legal issues monitoring kids.

  • From the "NO SHIT" Dept (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @01:00PM (#64079347) Journal

    "Your Smart TV Knows What You're Watching"

    No shit, Sherlock. That was the entire pint of 'smart' TVs.

  • In Soviet 'Murica TV watches you.

    • In Soviet 'Murica TV watches you.

      Many years ago, long before "smart" TVs existed, I knew people who believed that "the government" was watching them through their television.

  • End of comment

  • My LG TVs a) only ever connect to a hotspot on my phone that's only enabled when I want to do software updates on them b) I've never accepted their privacy policy so they don't connect back to the mothership when they are (briefly) on wireless and c) all streaming is done through an Apple TV.

  • Smart TVs have been surveilling users for many years. This is just a more advanced form. Never attach your TV to the network. Perform all updates using USB thumb drives. Buy an Apple TV.

  • I have searched for a decent quality "dumb" TV and ... nothing to be found.
    You could opt for a very large computer monitor, but that comes at a premium price.

    The only solution is to NOT use any of the smart features - once you've got it all setup, disconnect it entirely from the internet.

    But what about all the apps? How do I stream netflix, disney etc. etc.?

    Get an external box and hook that up.

    But won't that mean I'm still being tracked by any app I've installed?

    You betcha - you have to login to these servi

  • I found 7 background services running by default (Score:4, Informative)

    by davide marney ( 231845 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @01:32PM (#64079487) Journal

    I have an older Samsung Smart TV and a Roku Streaming Stick. Between the two of them, there were 7 data-collecting services running, all turned on by default. Some were pretty well hidden. On the Roku Streaming Stick, for example, you have to go into the Privacy Help pages, click on the various privacy "policy" documents, and only there will you find a checkbox to disable the service. Sometimes even the checkbox is labeled very ambiguously, for example, "I disagree with policy XYZ..." instead of "turn this spyware feature off". And those check boxes are unchecked by default, meaning that you agree by default.

    NOT A GOOD LOOK, ROKU. You can be much better with this.

  • ...I don't let my TVs have network access, they're just used as dumb displays, any smarts are in what I connect to them

  • My TCL Roku TV lets you set an input to "Game Mode" to reduce latency. I think turning off ACR is the big latency reduction. You can also dig into the menus to turn it off, though that doesn't improve latency, which is always a pain if the audio isn't routed through the TV. It's something like 200 to 300 ms.

  • Not providing any data is nice, but if you want a lasting effect, poison the data pool. If you can somehow create a bunch of bogus profiles or, better, poison other people's profiles, the data becomes utterly worthless.

    Bonus points if you only reveal it after they already sold the junk data to their advertising customers for some big bucks.

  • Doesn't have any of those issues. Ya'll do what ya want though.

  • Raises hand ... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @02:31PM (#64079653)

    ACR identifies what's displayed on your television, including content served through a cable TV box, streaming service, or game console, by continuously grabbing screenshots ...

    Um... Doesn't this violate the copy protection (HDCP [wikipedia.org]) in the HDMI chain (and, if not, how can / why can't I do this to copy content).

    • ACR identifies what's displayed on your television, including content served through a cable TV box, streaming service, or game console, by continuously grabbing screenshots ...

      Um... Doesn't this violate the copy protection (HDCP [wikipedia.org]) in the HDMI chain (and, if not, how can / why can't I do this to copy content).

      Forgot to include... or violate the Copy Control bit my cable provider sets on content?

  • i wrote about this 25 years ago (Score:4, Informative)

    by Darth Technoid ( 83199 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @02:54PM (#64079739)

    25 years ago, I wrote a book (published by John Wiley & Sons) predicting this. It was obvious back in 1997 that this was gonna be a sure thing.

    On one of the first pages of my book, I wrote: "Television is something that watches you."

  • "by continuously grabbing screenshots and comparing them to a massive database of media and advertisements" That sounds hugely wasteful and inefficient. But so does most ML so it's probably fast/cheap enough for them to be making a lot of money.
  • I know it's finding out you're watching habits and it's no surprise to me but is it all negative?
    There are a lot of streaming channels on Samsung's TV channels that I watch. I used to check out the Classic Doctor Who episodes on it and they stopped casting that channel. It's still on the Roku channels.
    Maybe they stopped because people weren't watching it and the data collected helped determine that? I don't recall seeing a lot of advertising on that channel at the time.
    Perhaps we need to see it as the mo

  • Dont thwart them, confuse them (Score:3)

    by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @04:38PM (#64080047) Journal
    Where do you hide a tree? In the forest, of course!

    How do you hide your data? Create a forest to hide it!

    Set up random boring channels like CSPAN. Or channels of polar opposite interest, like Classical music and wresting. And keep streaming them to the tv whenever you go out. With enough randomization, they will never know what you are really watching and what is shown to the empty room

  • LG Uploads Screenshots to South Korea (Score:3, Informative)

    by JakFrost ( 139885 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @04:52PM (#64080071)

    I wrote about this previously, but I caught my LG TV making connections to South Korean servers and uploading gigabytes of screenshots a day to their servers. I had to disagree to every single policy on the television and I still catch it. Trying to make remote connections and connect to servers to transfer data about viewing habits and also pulling in advertisement data .

    Every so often, my AT&T provided Wi-Fi router reboots or loses the settings during some kind of maintenance and the TV is able to get out to the internet past the block on both of its wired and wireless interfaces and I will get a pop-up advertisement about some feature of the television or upcoming show or something .

    Even though I have never agreed to any of the policies, it's still tries to push all of this stuff through and keeps hammering at the firewall trying to get out .

    When I first caught it uploading gigabytes of data per day, I knew that it was taking screenshots of everything I was watching and sending them up there.

    • Sure, gigabytes per day. One TV, gigabytes per day. How many hours is that TV being used? LG sells 30-40 MILLION TVs every year, each sending GIGABYTES of data per day. Three years of sales would generate well over a TB PER SECOND continuously, 24 hours a day for just 1 GB/day per TV spread out over 24 hours, as if the TV would have enough secret memory to buffer that much spy data.

      You should probably spend less time engaging your imagination.

    • Can you open up the back and let the magic smoke out of the wi-fi chip?

  • Assuming you never use a streaming service, is it possible to remove or disable the hardware network modules on these TVs?

    I see zero reason to believe the manufacturers won't rationalize your data into their possession somehow - regardless of opting out, disabling through their UI, or even declining to connect the thing to a router.

    While we're on the subject: I believe it's possible for ethernet signals to travel over HDMI. If you connect a computer graphics card to a TV's HDMI port, is there any possible

  • (clicks on Martin Scorsese movie)

    TV says: "You...have...selected...MCU movie marathon"

    "The fuck?" (clicks on Scorsese movie again)

    TV says: "You...have...selected...Disney+ romcom catalog marathon!

    (growls in frustration) (clicks on Smithsonian documentary about the Space Race)

    TV says: "You...have...selected...Ancient Alien QAnon Conspiracies of The Bible!"

    (tries to turn off TV)

    TV says: "You...have...selected...death! Your local SWAT team has been notified that you are a dirty hippie Com

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