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Your TV Set Has Become a Digital Billboard. And It's Only Getting Worse. (arstechnica.com) 158
TV manufacturers are shifting their focus from hardware sales to viewer data and advertising revenue. This trend is driven by declining profit margins on TV sets and the growing potential of smart TV operating systems to generate recurring income. Companies like LG, Samsung, and Roku are increasingly prioritizing ad sales and user tracking capabilities in their TVs, ArsTechnica reports. Automatic content recognition (ACR) technology, which analyzes viewing habits, is becoming a key feature for advertisers. TV makers are partnering with data firms to enhance targeting capabilities, with LG recently sharing data with Nielsen and Samsung updating its ACR tech to track streaming ad exposure. This shift raises concerns about privacy and user experience, as TVs become more commercialized and data-driven. Industry experts predict a rise in "shoppable ads" and increased integration between TV viewing and e-commerce platforms. The report adds: With TV sales declining and many shoppers prioritizing pricing, smart TV players will continue developing ads that are harder to avoid and better at targeting. Interestingly, Patrick Horner, practice leader of consumer electronics at analyst Omdia, told Ars that smart TV advertising revenue exceeding smart TV hardware revenue (as well as ad sale margins surpassing those of hardware) is a US-only trend, albeit one that shows no signs of abating. OLED has become a mainstay in the TV marketplace, and until the next big display technology becomes readily available, OEMs are scrambling to make money in a saturated TV market filled with budget options. Selling ads is an obvious way to bridge the gap between today and The Next Big Thing in TVs.
Indeed, with companies like Samsung and LG making big deals with analytics firms and other brands building their businesses around ads, the industry's obsession with ads will only intensify. As we've seen before with TV commercials, which have gotten more frequent over time, once the ad genie is out of the bottle, it tends to grow, not go back inside. One side effect we're already seeing, Horner notes, is "a proliferation of more TV operating systems." While choice is often a good thing for consumers, it's important to consider if new options from companies like Amazon, Comcast, and TiVo actually do anything to notably improve the smart TV experience for owners.
And OS operators' financial success is tied to the number of hours users spend viewing something on the OS. Roku's senior director of ad innovation, Peter Hamilton, told Digiday in May that his team works closely with Roku's consumer team, "whose goal is to drive total viewing hours." Many smart TV OS operators are therefore focused on making it easier for users to navigate content via AI.
Indeed, with companies like Samsung and LG making big deals with analytics firms and other brands building their businesses around ads, the industry's obsession with ads will only intensify. As we've seen before with TV commercials, which have gotten more frequent over time, once the ad genie is out of the bottle, it tends to grow, not go back inside. One side effect we're already seeing, Horner notes, is "a proliferation of more TV operating systems." While choice is often a good thing for consumers, it's important to consider if new options from companies like Amazon, Comcast, and TiVo actually do anything to notably improve the smart TV experience for owners.
And OS operators' financial success is tied to the number of hours users spend viewing something on the OS. Roku's senior director of ad innovation, Peter Hamilton, told Digiday in May that his team works closely with Roku's consumer team, "whose goal is to drive total viewing hours." Many smart TV OS operators are therefore focused on making it easier for users to navigate content via AI.
Unplug the WiFi aerial (Score:2)
There. No longer connected.
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"A WiFi connection is required to connect to an antenna".
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"A WiFi connection is required to connect to an antenna".
"Return to store for full refund "
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"Oh, I'm sorry, this went on sale for 30 seconds immediately after you bought it, so the best I can do is give you store credit for the sale price."
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Re: Unplug the WiFi aerial (Score:2)
That is not a thing. Assuming you can make a return at all you get the price you paid on your receipt whether it has gone on or off sale since, always, everywhere in the developed world.
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"everywhere in the developed world." In the developed world, yeah, but what about the US of A?
Same here, too. In fact, in California we have a whole bunch of additional rights that most people don't even know about, like you can get a warranty replacement anywhere the same item is sold.
Some companies do know about it and take steps to prevent it, though. For example Sears changes the part numbers on their products every year even when the products don't actually change. That way they can always claim they don't have that model any more.
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"Oh, I'm sorry, this went on sale for 30 seconds immediately after you bought it, so the best I can do is give you store credit for the sale price."
Actually. the biggest hassle about returning a TV is physically trying to get the damn thing back in the box without breaking it. Assuming you get that part sorted out and are still within the store's stated return policy, you'll always get 100% of your money back.
At most stores you don't even need the receipt if you paid with a credit or debit card, because they can look the transaction up. That's another privacy can of worms in itself, but I digress.
Re: Unplug the WiFi aerial (Score:2)
Next day in the news: Suspected phone battery fire destroys store.
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I've never heard of it happening here in the US and I'm not sure if its legal here either.
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That's not legal in my country of New Zealand. We have very strong consumer protection laws here.
Unless you're a supermarket chain, in which case the government is set to enforce its laws against anticompetitive behaviour any day^H^H^week^H^H^H^month^H^H^Hyear^H^H^H^Hcentury now.
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"A WiFi connection is required to connect to an antenna".
That's cute, but is there any TV that actually says that?
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"A WiFi connection is required to connect to an antenna".
That's cute, but is there any TV that actually says that?
All I know is the only way I could get antenna input on my Vizio TV after a fairly recent update was to disable WiFi and do a factory reset. "Antenna" input with WiFi connected is now just a random streaming channel they are trying to push onto you.
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Just block it (Score:5, Insightful)
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That's the approach I took.
But that's only because my model does not allow you to delete a Wi-Fi Configuration! You cannot even change it to a fake one because it will not save the change unless it connects.
Re: Just block it (Score:3)
Re:Just block it (Score:5, Insightful)
Are there THAT many people that do that?
I suppose I could understand at the beginning, to get an update, but after that...what exact "updates" do you need for a fscking TV?
Don't most people hook them up to cable, antenna or streaming box?
Why would you need to connect a TV to the internet?
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Sure, there is also a limited offering via DVB-t and satellite but the majority of programs are IP.
Re: Just block it (Score:2)
Wouldn't it work to put a raspberry pi with Kodi between your TV and the internet? Of course it means extra hardware and setup...
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I suppose I could understand at the beginning, to get an update,
Even getting an update is risky; from what I've seen, many "updates" are anti-consumer and try to monetize the captive audience. Updates may add extra spying, download unskippable commercials directly to your TV, maybe add new for-pay channels front and center in your main menu (and make them non-removable, of course).
I have never connected my TV to the internet. The guys who installed it used a phone's hotspot for the initial activation. I only need basic functionality on the TV (I use a HTPC for all strea
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I still find it revolting that you have to "activate" a TV. Stuff like this sucks because there are not many alternatives. I could buy a monitor and slap it on the wall, but monitors generally are not big enough to watch well from across the room.
The ironic thing is that I never use the "smart" TV functions. All I care about is HDMI connectivity, because I have some other type of box doing the heavy lifting, be it an Apple TV, or even a NAS doing Plex.
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I guess reading this, I was kinda shocked to think that anyone really hooks their TV up to the internet....
How the hell do you watch Netflix?
Re: Just block it (Score:2)
I use a Chromecast. Works flawlessly on any TV with HDMI. I can even take my subscriptions with me to someone else's TV.
Netflix? lol (Score:4, Interesting)
Why would I want to watch Netflix (or similar)? Constantly being fish-hooked into paying subscription fees, content that disappears over time, dealing with network interruptions...
I'm perfectly happy with my Bluray and DVD collections. I can rewatch good content, resell poor content, enjoy interruption-free playback, and entirely avoid the incredibly toxic mess movie theaters have become.
As for "smart" TVs, not my problem. I have a number of displays, and they all work just fine without the Internet. I doubt I'll ever need another (not exactly a spring chicken here.) If one dies, I'll just toss it and connect a different one. The only one I'd actually miss is my projector. But it's a luxury, not a necessity.
Considering how many people have bought into the subscription mindset, I am pretty certain the "how awful can we make this before they give up on us" mindset of enterprises from TV manufacturers to software factories will get a lot worse before (if) it gets better.
Right now is sort of a "golden time" where we can still get entertainment media and playback hardware, functional computing software and hardware, even vehicles that don't fish-hook. But it's clearly a race to the bottom. Very glad to have avoided it.
I do miss when game machines were "shove this disc in and play", though. Still, none of mine of that era have died, and even older good fun is still good fun.
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The LG TV in this household has some sort of resource leak if it can't contact its phone home server. After a couple of hours, whether without internet access entirely or just blocked at the router, the UI becomes sluggish and even TV decoding begins to stutter. It returns to normal immediately if it can phone home and never develops these symptoms when it has full internet access. There is no software update which fixes this, and actually this behavior was introduced with a software update years after purc
Re: Just block it (Score:2)
Re:Unplug the WiFi aerial (Score:4, Interesting)
Even easier, when it says "Connect to WiFi", click on "Skip".
Then connect it to your Raspberry Pi with an HDMI cable and control what you watch from there.
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Wait until they add their own free cellular service. :P
Re: Unplug the WiFi aerial (Score:2)
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I've never used the TV for doing the tuning in. It has always been a recorder or set-top-box. The TV is effectively just a monitor and the TV remote just collects dust.
Re: Unplug the WiFi aerial (Score:2)
Ota is dying around here, everything is on fiber so the TV is just a display connected to a box or computer.
Your TV was always an ad machine. (Score:2)
Pay for TV, don't pay for TV. Doesn't matter. Your TV was always a machine to send you advertisements.
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Not true at all. My TVs have all been a monitor for a video recorder and/or set-top-box since the 1980's. The TV remotes have hardly ever been used.
What? No it hasn't... (Score:2)
I have a Roku smart TV. I use it often.
1. When I'm not using it, it's turned off and I'm not receiving any advertisements.
2. When I'm using the Roku homescreen, I might see a static banner add until I start scrolling through apps at which point it's just static app icons I'm going through.
3. When my homescreen goes idle, I get a screen saver (not an advertisement).
4. When I'm in one of the apps (Netflix, Youtube, Amazon Prime, etc.) I don't get any advertisements from Roku-- only from the services I'm using
Assumptions (Score:4, Insightful)
The title alludes to the idea that you *must* replace your TV on techbro culture's schedule, so every two years, or more, if you can fit in the budget.
Me personally? My newest TV is . . . let's see, 2012 or so? Maybe 2011. Tough to remember. And newer sets seem to be made my people hell-bent on all the data and all the eyeballs, so I have no incentive to buy anything else unless one of ours dies. At which point, I'll most likely just go looking for a straight up monitor, rather than a TV. I see no reason for a TV, an output device, to contain all this networked ad-shoveling, data-collecting garbage. I don't mind paying a little more, because to me a TV is something I buy once a decade or less. Perhaps a lot less, as time goes on. If it can play content, I'm good.
But the article is still written from the perspective of the average consumer replacing their TV every year or two. And I'm sorry, there are way too many people in my office at work that have to buy a new TV every single year when we get our bonus for me to think it's not true on the average. Which would be concerning if I thought that was the most egregiously wasteful thing us humans tend to do. As it is, that barely ranks in the top five.
Re:Assumptions (Score:4, Informative)
If your TV is from 2012, you might wanna upgrade for the power consumption.
Newer TVs use much less. If you watch a lot of TV, it might pay for itself in a few years.
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If your TV is from 2012, you might wanna upgrade for the power consumption.
Newer TVs use much less. If you watch a lot of TV, it might pay for itself in a few years.
Yeah, I hear that same argument every year about everything I own. I'm not in the habit of throwing away perfectly usable items. I know, burn me at the stake. I don't think consumption is my only purpose on Earth.
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Never-mind the costs of those massive data-centers and high speed links to sell your data that the manufacturers write off as an externality for society to pay for.
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And how much are you saving pr year. A couple dollars, if even that?
My 55-inch TV uses 60 watts. I bought it for $225 at Walmart.
A model from 12 years ago used 200 watts.
The average American family has the TV turned on for 7 hours per day.
The average American family pays 17 cents per kwh for electricity.
140 watts * 7 hours per day * 365 * 17 cents = $60 per year.
So, I will be ahead in four years. I'll keep my new TV for much longer than that.
I'm not going to throw away something that still works thus contributing even more to the e-waste problem.
By not doing so, you're contributing to the CO2 problem, which is more significant.
Re: Assumptions (Score:2)
What? No. Throwing shit away contributes far more to climate change. It's pretty much never good for the climate to replace something early.
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What? No. Throwing shit away contributes far more to climate change. It's pretty much never good for the climate to replace something early.
When I dispose of equipment like that, I typically haul it out into a field in a wagon or similar container, douse it in gasoline, and set it on fire. After the billowing black smoke dissipates and it's no longer a smoldering pile, I then toss the remnants into the garbage. It gives me maximal environmental impact for little cost. However, with the rising price of gas, I might have to use less of that and set an old tire on fire as the kindling material. That would give me extra pollution goodness after all
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Kudos for the clarification.
That said, do people REALLY replace their TVs every 1-2 years? That seems absolutely insane to me. I've had my 55" TCL since 2017 and there literally nothing wrong with it. I still think it's an absolute marvel that I can rip my own DVDs and watch them via the Plex app via Roku. It's like magic!
If you have personal experience, I have some more questions.
Are today's Roku TVs so different? Do they actually behave like digital billboards by...
1. Turning on automatically and running
Re: Assumptions (Score:2)
Well, if you use your TV for apps, you might be compelled to upgrade for newer apps when your manufacturer stops delivering updates.
On the other hand, why the fuck are you using your TV for apps...
Another good reason for using a separate device (Score:2)
When it's first powered on, our Sony 4K television does show a bunch of stuff from all the available channels it offers (like all TVs nowadays, it wants you to use it as a smart TV). But we just use it as a dumb front-end for an Apple TV, so that connection takes over within a few seconds and we never see anything from Sony after that.
I can't say that I've seen any actual advertisements on that Sony opening screen, though.
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I love the apple tv, but for the majority of users, they will happily use the apps included with the TV. I do admit, I love the look of 1 device with no wires (or work required to hide wires). Same video content, just the user exp is not as good.
An issue with this is the built-in TV OS and applications are typically only supported for a few years - much less time than people typically own the TV itself.
Whether it's Apple TV, Roku, or whatever, the peripheral boxes are supported for far longer... and are much cheaper to replace, once they do fall off support.
Television shows are obsolete (Score:3)
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It's a UI issue. Seriously.
Linear TV is dead to me. Never watch it, always stream or download something. The issue is the UI in cars for selecting media. Sometimes voice control can work, but it's mostly terrible. So you fall back to linear radio instead of podcasts and audio books you are actually interested in.
Don't ever buy a television (Score:5, Informative)
Buy a monitor and plug it into a device that provides the video feed you want.
"Smart" TVs only exist to get money from you beyond the original purchase price, and functionality can usually be altered over the Internet connection. They're not motivated to make it better for you, they're motivated to get something from you.
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They don't offer monitors in the same sizes, features, and prices. There are better solutions while remaining with a TV.
Re:Don't ever buy a television (Score:5, Insightful)
I've yet to find a 4K OLED monitor that is 65" or larger.....so, TV it is.
However, all of mine are plugged into streaming boxes and antenna.
I guess I'd just assumed that's what most people did anyway till I saw this article.
Re:Don't ever buy a television (Score:4, Insightful)
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https://www.lg.com/ca_en/busin... [lg.com]
Good find.
Is an absolute beauty, with the power of a beast (pun intended).
I will not even dare google the price, lest I cry.
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That is almost near the five digit USD mark from what I have seen. You get what you pay for... but ouch... sticker shock.
I don't care if... (Score:2)
...my streaming device tracks what I watch. I think of it as voting for stuff I like
I will do anything I can to avoid ads. I will pay, I will use technological fixes, I WILL NOT WATCH ADS!!!
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When I read through the pages and page of TOS that came with my smart TV, I noticed that to use the smart features you have to allow the TV to analyze content you play back through the TV and report back, even if you're playing from a different video source like a laptop or a game console.
So I chose instead to pull the plug on the Smart TV and use an external Roku box instead. I assume that when I'm using the Roku box it's reporting back home and like you I'm actually fine with that. But the Roku doesn't
PiHole blocks most of this stuff (Score:3)
Directly in PiHole's logs when the TV is in use, I see it blocking stuff related to Netflix, Samsung, Amazon, Sony, adsystem.com (more Amazon stuff), and others. Same thing when you browse any news website.
Honestly, I don't see how people get anything useful from the Internet without PiHole, ad blockers, and similar tech. What a sad (but unsurprising) perversion of the technology.
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Idiocracy Anyone? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Idiocracy Anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)
You can go 20 years farther back to Back to the Future II and see that too.
"I want (this thing and that thing and that other thing) and the Weather Channel" -- Marty Mc. Fly, Jr.
The future McFly household, in the ficticious year of 2015, had what looked like an 8-ft retractable screen of 16:9 ratio, and Marty's kid loaded it up with something like 10 channels all at once. A lot looked like infomercials or ads.
Both movies were correct in the depiction of future (our current) TV landscape. Idiocracy went further, Ow! My Balls! seems strangely prescient these days.
Wall-E suggests 700 years in the future it'll be the same too, only the screen will be projected inches from your eyeballs.
Reality suggests chips in you, and they'll just beam it right into your brain. Like the chip Kirk had in Star Trek: The Motionless Picture, the Novel.
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Brands? (Score:2)
Is there a resource that can give makes/models of "dumb" TVs?
I gave away my TV in 2005, and my IQ gained 20 points in 3 days! Haven't missed the TV, and have probably read a thousand books since then.
TVs are for boomers. (Score:2)
Maybe it's just me but I consume content through either my phone, my tablet or my monitors.
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Maybe it's just me but I consume content through either my phone, my tablet or my monitors.
GenX'er here:
Any of my TVs has decent speakers on it's own, and the Sony soundsystem in the Livingroom is outstanding. I have Technics SB-F5s for my desktop evironment, and the living roon soundsystem beats the living crap out of them. Advantage: TV
My TVs get digital OtA signals (and analog too, in my country, we haven't finished the transition). If I wanted OtA in the monitor, I'll need extra boxes and cables and wallwarts and crap. Advantage, TV.
The TV in my bedroom has an useful "sleep" function, so I ca
Just skip the "SMART" part on any tv. (Score:2)
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Pretty much universally the SMART features on any TV I have tried are worse than an Apple TV chrome cast (or whatever they are calling it these days), Roku, or even just a laptop mirrored or connected with a HDMI cable. Just plug in a box instead to your TV, preferably one that doesn't make their money by selling your data. Problem solved.
Did you read the article? Smart TVs nowadays are fingerprinting the content you watch in the OtA and HDMI connectors. Even if you never see an ad from the smartTV maker, your info WILL be exfiltrated, even if you do not connect the TV to the internet yourself.
The the kind of porn videos you watched on pornhub using a laptop connected via HDMI? Check
The series you watched on your AppleTV? Check.
The movie you casted from the high seas? Check
That talk show wich leans to some politial aile (or the other)? Check
It's Doable (Score:2)
I've gone the route of a nice Sony TV and an Apple TV. Have Google TV disabled on the Sony and Apple is as good as you're gonna get in terms of privacy and performance from a smart setup.
Just buy a Spectre brand TV (Score:2)
my what? (Score:2)
i stopped bothering with that trash even before they went digital.
in the age of internet, where everything is one click and download away, it's amazing that people still use those and even subscribe to streaming platforms to watch unending hours of mediocre drivel. why should i be surprised if they are showered with ads on top of that?
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that's indeed a fine selection, thanks for the heads up!
Sorry. This is currently unavailable in your region.
duh!
pricing of THE CRITERION COLLECTION
ChatGPT said:
The Criterion Collection typically ranges from $30 to $50 per title, with occasional sales and discounts.
pricey, but unique and interesting for the occasion. they have some stuff that may not be easily accessible otherwise.
I'll use only monitors then... (Score:2)
Honestly I don't care so much about them seeing what I do/watch. It's them thinking they can sell my attention... and to interrupt me. That's where I"ll always draw the line.
ADHD is a medical illness. This feels like someone wanting to charge extra for an elevator, but ignoring that some people can't choose to use the stairs.
Hard to believe (Score:2)
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I don't know. I guess one thing that's nice about tv advertising is that its a little harder for users to ignore and block without a bit of effort.
I honestly don't think I've ever bought anything based on an ad in my entire life. Except product placement in TV shows, that might have got me a few times.
Some other people must just do what ads tell them to, because if everyone was like me, they would be a complete waste of $$$.
Glad I don't own a smart TV... (Score:2)
My current TV is a 32" Samsung dumb TV that has worked well for more than a decade. It does everything that I need it to do (which is to be a thing for watching over-the-air TV) and I will keep using it until it no longer works.
For all other content viewing (Disney+, YouTube etc) I have my Windows PC that I can at least control (e.g. blocking ads on YouTube)
When were TVs not electronic billboards? (Score:2)
n/t
The real problem here (Score:2)
I wasn't even aware of this (Score:2)
Nope (Score:2)
>"Your TV Set Has Become a Digital Billboard"
No it hasn't, and never will. Because I don't connect it to the network. I use it as a monitor, like sane people should. Content is provided by things I can control and swap out as needed. Right now it is connected to a TiVo Roamio, a Roku Ultra, my Linux desktop, a Wii-U, a BluRay player.
And when I have to replace this TV, I will replace it with another that is not connected to a network, and if that model somehow prevents me from doing that, I will retur
Projector (Score:2)
I have been a using a projector setup for 20 years. I started with one that was 960 x 540. So called 1/4 HD. Or 1/16 UHD. I went though 720p, 1080p and now 2160p projectors. None of the them ever supported Wifi. My current one, an Optoma UHD65 from 2017, features an Ethernet port, for purpose of automation. I don't have it hooked up. It passed 6000 hours on the first lamp. I replaced it last year. I expect to continue using it for many years we do have 2 smart TVs in the house. One is an old Sharp 3D TV in
They're telescreens (Score:2)
What "TV set"? (Score:3)
Dumped that crap-tech about a decade ago. If I want to rot my mind I can at least have fun doing it, i.e. gaming, alcohol, etc.
Well so what (Score:2)
TVs have one job, and one job only (Score:3)
Display the content I choose to play. That content is already likely to be infested with ads of all sorts. If the TV starts adding its own ads on top, I'm going to throw it out of the window and get a dumb model.
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So long as no one demands it be connected to the damned internet just for basic functionality, IDGAF, and if that day comes, I likely will just buy a large monitor instead...
My concern is that monitor-only devices may disappear from the market altogether - if you want a monitor you'll have to buy a TV. Either that, or the only 'true' new monitors will be very high-end, very costly units made for the art, graphics, and publishing market sector.
Even if I'm wrong in that, watch for simple monitors to also contain networking capability, and eventually to require a network connection in order to function. HP's latest approach to printers-as-a-service is the writing on the wall for t
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But I think it's true
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> Either that, or the only 'true' new monitors will be very high-end
Looks like Best Buy [bestbuy.com] has a reasonable selection of monitors with 4K resolution at a decent price. Yeah, they'll be more expensive because they're not collecting/selling your viewing information. But if you're worried about all the stuff you mentioned, better buy it now.
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I'll happily accept the subsidized TV price. I'll even accept the silly EULA and "privacy notice" But I'll never actually connect it to the internet. There's already a ton of connected devices to drive the screen. If they want to connect my screen to their Ad servers, they're gonna have to pay me.
Wrong:
1.) You will connect it to the internet from time to time, for firmware updates to correct actual failures, or to gain useful features (like a better upscaling algorithm, or a better dimming-zones algorithm, or a better pixel rotation algorithm to prevent burn-in in OLEDs, to cite just 3 examples).
2.) Technologies to connect your TV to the internet without you noticing "for your own good" do exist. From the use of Open WiFi APs, to using bluetooth from the TV to the Phone/Tablety App of the TV to the
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I wouldn't be surprised if TVs started coming with cellular connections, just so they had a way to fetch stuff and upload telemetry.
I've been lucky so far because I've not bothered with a TV upgrade in a while, although when it comes time to move and get a nice thing to watch from the couch, I dread having to deal with that, or "professional" installers.