Bose Acquires Premium Audio Brand McIntosh 68
Bose has acquired the high-end audio brand McIntosh, a move the company says will "significantly" expand its product lineup and open "new opportunities in the automotive sector." The Verge reports: McIntosh has already designed a sound system for some Jeep models, but Bose's audio setups are found within a wider range of cars from automakers like Chevy, Honda, Nissan, Cadillac, and many others. It doesn't look like Bose or McIntosh will make any changes to their existing products. Bose says it will continue to launch its headphones, speakers, soundbars, and in-car audio, while McIntosh and Sonus faber will keep developing premium audio products, including amplifiers, loudspeakers, and turntables. "Over the last six decades we've delivered the best premium audio experiences possible; now, with McIntosh Group in our portfolio, we can unlock even more ways to bring music to life in the home, on-the-go and in the car," Bose CEO Lila Snyder said in a press release. "We look forward to honoring the heritage of these brands, investing in their future and pushing the boundaries of audio innovation to bring customers experiences they've never heard before."
Sad News for Mcintosh (Score:3)
Re:Sad News for Mcintosh (Score:5, Interesting)
I've always wanted one of their systems, but could never justify the expense within my budget. There is something to be said for makers of huge, massive, powerful and high quality audio components, but that sector is slowly dying as it is hard to imagine even billionaires wanting a whole lot more than the top offerings of Sonos. I wonder if high end audio has reached the end of the line, and this acquisition signals yes.
Also sad news for fans of quality audio. Bose is known among musician circles at least, as being really good at creating a pleasing, but not at all flat soundscape. And it can't be made flat if that's something you happen to be looking for, like mix engineers or mastering techs. McIntosh could do the pleasing soundscape thing, AND could be put into a very flat mode. Something that will now most likely be killed in pursuit of cost savings and consolidation. In a just world, Bose wouldn't be allowed to suck up a competitor that does a better job than them, but this is a world built for the biggest to slowly subsume those a notch or more back on the economic scale. The biggest fish in each sector must eat all others.
Where's regulation when you need it?
And before the overly sensitive Bose fans lose their collective minds, I did not say Bose is poor quality. It's only a poor fit for certain applications. And now a competitor that was a good fit for those applications is going to disappear.
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Bose is known among musician circles at least, as being really good at creating a pleasing, but not at all flat soundscape
It's better than a car radio from the 90s.
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Bose is known among musician circles at least, as being really good at creating a pleasing, but not at all flat soundscape
It's better than a car radio from the 90s.
Are you sure? My mom (insert joke here) had a Bose system in her car in the 90s that was one of the better car stereos I had ever heard. Even at volume. I wouldn't trust it to do a mix, but I certainly would, and did, blast Metallica in it while cruising.
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Also sad news for fans of quality audio. Bose is known among musician circles at least, as being really good at creating a pleasing, but not at all flat soundscape. And it can't be made flat if that's something you happen to be looking for, like mix engineers or mastering techs. McIntosh could do the pleasing soundscape thing, AND could be put into a very flat mode. Something that will now most likely be killed in pursuit of cost savings and consolidation. In a just world, Bose wouldn't be allowed to suck up a competitor that does a better job than them, but this is a world built for the biggest to slowly subsume those a notch or more back on the economic scale.
First off, I can’t imagine McIntosh not coming with one or two patents on their sound replication. Something that Bose should capitalize on, not destroy. But more to the point, Bose IS “sucking up” a competitor that does better. Even they know it. Why would they buy them at a reasonable price if there’s no perceived inherent value?
McIntosh has always been a premium product for a premium audience that can afford it. Audi/VW Group bought Lamborghini in 1998. When they did, they d
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It's not the auto sound I'm worried out, but their home stereo offerings.
I'm still saving my nickels and dimes for a MC275 Tube amp.....I guess I need to sacrifice and splurge to get one before Bose fscks th
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Also - did McIntosh do a better job than them? Depends what you consider the job - they clearly didn't outcompete them and BOSE is certainly not any form of speaker monopolist. It's a big big stretch to consider this a situation where the law should get involved. Maybe if they were the last two speaker manufacturers on earth, but they're a long way away from that - a q
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Bose did a better job of marketing. McIntosh concentrated on doing a better job building sound systems to fit different applications.
I use several different studio monitors myself, and have been meaning to check out Kali monitors. Though lately I've been using VSX from Slate with two of the studio environment packages, flipping back and forth. Seems to give me a slightly better result than just monitors alone. Translates better across other systems.
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Very interesting - wasn't aware of the VSX. I use ye olde venerable ATH-50x for headphone mixing at the moment, the VSX look interesting. I'm a hobbyist really - have music released and enjoy faffing with my synths, but I'm not about to trouble the Top 50. Or the Top 1000....
Me too. I'm a thrash/death metal guy, so have zero hope of every "making it." I just like to make music and share with friends. I like mixing on the couch sometimes, or in motel rooms when not at home, and it's tough to bring the whole environment along. VSX solves that, for not much more than a good set of monitors cost.
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McIntosh is not "better" than Bose (not being sensitive here, Bose make rubbish when it comes to audio), they are targeting fundamental different markets. One company focuses on audiophiles, the other focuses on their significant others who don't think big speakers belong in the living room. One company provides old school valves and a pure signal path, while the other doesn't release a single product without DSP and modern Class-D switching amps (because let's face it DSP what the founder's doctoral thesis
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Bose also spearheaded the idea that you needed to get an online account before you could even pair your headphones with your source. Now Bowers and Wilkins do the same thing, and presumably Mcintoch will be the same if they aren't already.
Shame... the Quiet Comfort 35s were *the* headphones to have in a noisy office. Maybe not uber-audiophile, but very good stuff, premium pricing, but not too crazy. I can't recommend any of their stuff any more though - the rot of enshitification has taken root.
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Vintage audio is where it's at still, except the source. Nowadays a Raspberry PI with a DAC hat or an external DAC is unbeatable for the money as the source. With a hardware volume control you can even bypass the preamp and go directly to the amp. My speakers and amp are 30 years old and are the best I've ever had. The new speakers, amps, and preamps come with a lot of snake oil nowadays.
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I have a couple of Marantz, and several old Japanese receivers and amps from the 70s, that are still working with no issues. Although a few of them started developing issues, likely a transistor issue, like a Luxman I have.
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A few things can happen. Electrolytic caps dry out and lose capacitance. Carbon comp resistors drift and can develop noise. A similar thing happens to volume or balance pots, they get dirty and staticy. If the pots are open you can usually bring them back with a shot of De-Oxit spray. Transistors tend to either work or not work, there isn't much in between.
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Transistors tend to either work or not work, there isn't much in between.
I've found a few that got noisy. My guess is the seal leaks, O2 gets in and things start breaking down.
When I was a kid, 1980ish, I knew a guy who was replacing all the carbon resistors with metal film, in something- I think it was a reel-to-reel tape deck. At the time I didn't know how much quieter metal film resistors were. Better said, I didn't realize how noisy carbon resistors were.
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My Luxman dropped a couple of display lamps a few years ago - the indicator lights on the dial to select source. Got 'em fixed.
And it's playing right now. Streaming radio on the laptop > external Sound Blaster unit* > amp > speakers.
Pick a station on live365, something that has a decent bitrate, and it sounds OK.
*not trying to be an audiofool, the SB was donated. I *could* connect the laptop directly to the amp, but I like to give old hardware a useful purpose.
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Err no thankyou. Vintage audio is like a vintage car, you're buying into problems that have been easily solved. There are plenty of modern up to date high end audio solutions that perform perfectly and are available on a budget. Heck if you want to destroy your sound vintage way you can even find new valve pre-amp to add the distortion, or just turn on CamillaDSP on your Raspberry Pi and add distortion that way.
The new speakers, amps, and preamps come with a lot of snake oil nowadays.
Stop shopping at Charlatan Audio. Speakers are likewise better than ever benefiting with many yea
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People want high-end sound, but hand-wound transformers and vacuum tubes are of questionable value.
Not as questionable as ludicrously-priced cables.
Re:Sad News for Mcintosh (Score:4, Informative)
I get it re: hand-wound transformers. When something is done at small scale (i.e. by hand), then the parts cost becomes somewhat immaterial because of the labor, so chances are the components of the transformer are all higher quality than one manufactured in China. But I have tried hand-winding coils and transformers. It's an exercise in patience, and there's NO way what I do will come out as clean and neat as a machine in a factory doing it. But the thing is, the effect of materials used in a transformer is really negligible. As long as the specs are right, you're not gonna get any better out of a hand-wound transformer. People put their money into the wrong things and opt for power conditioners, interconnects, etc. The speaker is where the money should be put in. A good speaker can easily cost more than the rest of the system combined.
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You probably know: the dirty little secret of transformers (and guitar pickups and pretty much any coiled thing) is the distributed interwinding (intra?) distributed capacitance that causes all kinds of resonances. About 25 years ago I started occasionally working in the audio world (recording and live mix) and have worked with some serious talent, including Grammy-winners. They really do have "golden ears". I've done some circuit mods, including microphones, and these guys hear changes, big time. Much is b
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And that amazing speaker set will do a fantastic job at outputting coil whine and transformer hiss if you pair them with a shitty amplifier.
If you want clean sound, you have to spend on every link in the chain.
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Not really....pair those with a set of Klipschorn speakers...and you are in pure audio heaven.
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Components must be getting hard for manufacturers to find too: no one produces the heavy high quality analog parts needed to complete a true hifi design.
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Class-D and energy efficiency (even when it comes to speakers) is what today's craze is. The new folks' jaws would drop at a Nelson Pass Aleph 5 sucking up 600 constant watts. But the good thing is it doubles up as a heater in the winter :-)
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Summer is the reason I sold my Nelson Pass amps and switched to Class-D. Well there was this craze around for a while where people had "summer" and "winter" systems. I jumped aboard that craze but then lasted one season before I thought, WTF would I put those power hungry boat ankers back in my living room?
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Components must be getting hard for manufacturers to find too: no one produces the heavy high quality analog parts needed to complete a true hifi design.
The fact that you think you need "heavy high quality analog parts" shows you don't understand audio design. Aside from Tubes the quality of audio is largely dependent on the design of the circuit. Only charlatans and snake oil specialists try to sell you on the idea that you need "heavy high quality analog parts" to make good audio equipment, the type of people who don't know how to design a circuit and hope a $20 capacitor instead of a $10 one will reduce the distortion.
Audiophools (Score:2)
>> the type of people who ... hope a $20 capacitor instead of a $10 one will reduce the distortion.
We call them Audiophools.
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Well yes and no. The ones who do the buying are Audiophools, but these people exist on the design side as well. Plenty who don't know what they are doing and will sell you rubbish covered in lipstick.
Take for example NAIM Audio. Audiophiles love to talk about them as if they are something special, but pull apart their gear and you'll find not only parts out of the 70s, but designs taken directly from the datasheets of components back in the day. E.g. they talk a good talk about "low noise power supplies" an
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I've always wanted one of their systems, but could never justify the expense within my budget.
I wonder if Bose will keep the McIntosh Binghamton offices? Decades ago I lived in the greater upstate NY area, and happened to be driving through some part of Binghamton and saw their logo/name on a building and instantly recognized it as a few local audio shops had always promoted and sold their equipment (as McIntosh was considered a local manufacturer, along with being an excellent amp), even though at the time I did not have the money to even consider their equipment. The company has been sold a few
So Sue Me (Score:5, Funny)
Not good for the brand McIntosh (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't have much hope for McIntosh. The business model of Bose is to take cheap components and make something that sounds OK. They cost-reduce EVERYTHING.
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I don't have much hope for McIntosh. The business model of Bose is to take cheap components and make something that sounds OK. They cost-reduce EVERYTHING.
A McIntosh stereo receiver, can easily cost $5000+. There’s cost reduction..and then there’s someone who thinks they can rebuild a Ferrari on a Ford MSRP budget.
Toyota and Lexus. Honda and Acura. Take notes, Bose. Otherwise that premium customer is gonna go elsewhere if all you offer is pseudo-premium that can be heard a mile away.
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No. Their business model is to target their market. Bose's consumer living room shit is just that, low cost shit. Bose also has other areas of business, e.g. commercial headset applications where their products are quite high end and incredibly reliable.
There's no reason to cost optimise the components from McIntosh. They demand such a premium thanks to being an "audiophile brand" that there's really no point.
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Not just cost-reduce, but then sell the resulting product at a premium price.
When I think of cheap commodity audio gear Bose is the first brand that comes to mind.
Cheap? Bose? Bose stuff ain't cheap. They may be cheaply made, and use cheap parts, but Bose stuff is not cheap.
Bose (Score:2)
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I was going to try comparing to Toshiba Aurex, but it looks like Toshiba hasn't produced anything under the Aurex brand since 1982.
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Ick. Bose. Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've long known Bose, from single-digit age back in the 70's. It's always muddy and indistinct, anyone back then who would hook up Bose to McIntosh was clueless.
I've had one car with Bose premium in it (didn't have a chioce) and it was a wet blanket thrown over the music. Nothing had changed since the 70's.
Now Bose owns McIntosh? I wonder why DM Holdings sold 'em. (I think they were with DM Holdings, and before that, Clarion)
This is the worst possible owner for anything Hi-Fi. Bose is marketing.
In a just world, McIntosh would be able to have Bose see the light and build superb-sounding stuff, but we don't live in a just world. Bose will never, ever learn what good sound is. The only sound they care about is the gold in their coffers.
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Only Clarion I had was the factory hi-fi in my '84 rx7, and it was a fantastic head unit with built in equalizer, fader, cassette, am/fm.
Probably the 2nd best I've had in a car, with my current car having the #1 spot for "best sound in any of my cars, ever." My current car is a '13 Mini with teh Harman/Kardon factory setup.
The cassette had stopped working, so (keep in mind this happened in 1992) I sent it to the then-current Clarion service center in the US.. and I got it back 2 weeks later, fixed. Cost t
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> I've had one car with Bose premium in it (didn't have a chioce) and it was a wet blanket thrown over the music.
I had a Nissan with a Bose premium audio system. Calling it "mediocre" is being generous. It was incredibly under-powered, had poor stereo separation, and sounded terribly muddy. So, no more cars with Bose audio, ever.
Re: Ick. Bose. Really? (Score:2)
But they can do it right sometimes. My old ml with bose coax speakers in the door outperformed my vw with focal compnents. Of course nothing beat the monsoon in my old jetta.
Thereâ(TM)s a lot of decent priced quality speakers for home audio. Iâ(TM)m digressing, but my triangles are amazing paired with an integra amp. Wish instill had my old sansui to really them tho.
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The market is changing fast because a lot of new players are entering, and formats are shifting. There's a lot of very good, very affordable kit available now, from players nobody had heard of like Topping. The consumer market for older brands like Bose is shrinking, so they have been moving towards integrations like car audio systems.
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I don't care about Bose, at all.
What I do mind is that piece of shit company bought one of the most storied names in audio -- and it's not an idle reputation. McIntosh still makes what many would call "the best" for amplifiers.
I've been to a festival or two down here where the audio stack is all McIntosh with JBL for speakers. Witnessing a tent with nearly half a million dollars worth of amps with blue meters was enough to put a smile on my face.
I shouldn't be too proud, my favorite speaker maker is Klips
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Again? You're ultimately concerned over nothing. McIntosh hasn't been McIntosh for 3 decades now. They were acquired by a car audio company (Clarion) in 1990.
In fact most of the "storied" names in audio are owned by someone these days. Heck B&W was briefly owned by a former Facebook CFO tech bro funded by VC. Now they are Sound United, soon someone else likely. The entire Harman group including Harman Kardon, JBL, Bang and Olufsen, AKG, and the ever highly commended Revel speakers, is owned by infamous
Years ago... (Score:2)
Years ago when very young I listened to speakers in a store and ended up buying a pair of Bose ones. Believe it or not, after having listened also to B&W. They sounded rich and warm. Youth!
Took them home, was very happy with them for a day or two, then felt growing unease, finally listened carefully and got to the problem, it was the one note booming Bose bass. Unlistenable to for any length of time if what you wanted was clear reproduction of acoustic music.
What you test with, by the way, is speaki
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Yeah, a lot of opinions here, but it's all very subjective. But I agree- boomy bass. I used to mess a bit building speaker systems. Sealed box ("acoustic suspension") generally could be made to be pretty flat, but pretty inefficient, and always sounded somewhat compressed. Bass reflex and other tuned systems always sounded more dynamic and "lively", but tuned too high they sound "boomy". I like your "one note bass" reference. Several people I know have Bose "Wave Radios" and they boom, and there's no EQ con
No highs. No lows. (Score:5, Funny)
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Buy Other Sound Equipment.
I replaced my Bose Accoustimas 25 Series II 5.1 SRS with a Sony run of the mill speaker set and receiver and it sounds sooo much better. Hell, some radio shack systems sounded better than BOSE. I won't touch them anyomore. And that's after we found out it was cutting out trumpets on a ska CD my brother had to protect it. I got kicked out of the Bose presentation room at a store called "Nebraska Furniture Mart" by playing the CD on their test systems, and starting going "Where's
Bose counter-audio .v. high fidelity McIntosh (Score:3)
what could go wrong?
these two are existential opposites and the power dynamic is with the counter-culture brand.
High fidelity is over OR bad acoustic design is over as Bose goes high end consumer
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That’s hitting the nail on the head - exactly
That is the more plausible scenario, may be a reverse DEI MacIntosh acquihire - pure corporate - unrelated to anything audio but a P&L and workforce diversification initiative.
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At least they are both still audio companies. This merger makes more sense than the Facebook CFO tech bro buying Bowers and Wilkins and getting them to make smart speakers.
The decline of home audio (Score:5, Insightful)
The announcement of Bose buying McIntosh fits in with what's been happening with home audio in general. There has been a huge consolidation and shakeup of high-end audio companies over the last 15 years or so. And now, several of the large holding companies are in deep financial trouble:
Voxx International* Up For Sale, As Consumer Sales Plunge, Pioneer Brand Dropped
https://www.channelnews.com.au... [channelnews.com.au]
Former Sound United** Business Could Be “Discontinued” Next Year After Falling Revenues
https://www.channelnews.com.au... [channelnews.com.au]
* Voxx International (originally Audiovox Corp.) - owns about 35 brands, including Acoustic Research, Advent, Klipsch, Onkyo, etc.
** Sound United (Masimo) -- owns brands such as Bowers & Wilkins, Denon, Polk Audio, Marantz, Boston Acoustics, etc.
On a side note, I was wondering why I haven't run across Harman Kardon equipment for sale while browsing equipment recently. Turns out that Samsung bought Harman International (which included HK, JBL, Infinity, Lexicon, Mark Levinson, etc.) in 2017. Since the Samsung purchase, Harman Kardon has quit making receivers, amps, and AVR equipment and the brand only seems to be selling Bluetooth "smart" speaker, headphones now (along with car & boat systems).
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It's inevitable that brands disappear as audio equipment has been good at sound reproduction for decades. Apart from loudspeakers (and maybe turntables), any decent consumer unit is indistinguishable from high end in blind tests, so why buy a player or amplifier which has a pricetag of 4 numbers or more?
And I speak as a former audiophile who had bought some top notch equipment through second hand deals. I still have the rare Yamaha GT-CD 1 made for Europe, but nowadays I use a PC with proven sound card and
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Been using a Terratec Phase-28 pro sound card in my home theater PC for decades, hooked up to my ROTEL amps and B&W speakers.
Excellent bang for the buck and never felt the need to upgrade.
This is actually a good match (Score:1)
Frankly, this is a good match. Two companies that heavily rely on their marketing and "reputation" to sell products that are either completely outperformed by something else, or completely overpriced.
No you do not need a McIntosh to get a high end amp. I doubt any of you can pick out a McIntosh amp vs. a $500 amp in a true blind test. They even use Hypex amps in some of their products and upcharge the hell out of it (you could just get the Hypex amps for 1/8 the cost).
The truth is - you do not need to be sp
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Krell
High End Audio is not dead, it is evolving (Score:1)