China's TCL Overtakes Samsung in Premium Market For Ultra-Large TVs

Chinese TVs, once dismissed as "cheap and low-quality," are making strides in the premium market, overtaking Samsung, the world's top TV manufacturer. From a report: TCL, a leading Chinese TV brand, surpassed Samsung in the 80-inch and larger TV market for the first time in the second quarter. Another Chinese electronics company, Hisense, is closely trailing Samsung in this market.

TCL maintained the lead in the 80-inch and larger TV market in the third quarter with a 23% market share( based on shipments), surpassing Samsung Electronics for the second consecutive quarter, according to market research firm Omdia on Dec. 19.

Samsung's share fell from 26% in the third quarter of last year to 19% this year. Hisense is also closing in on Samsung, narrowing the market share gap from 11 percentage points to just 1.65 points over the past year. LG Electronics is facing similar challenges, losing its third-place market share position to Hisense last year.

US sanctions

[arglebargle_xiv]

Looks like US sanctions to shut down Chinese tech industries are working about as well as the War on Some Drugs worked to stamp out drugs.

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

China uses a variant of PAL, but it's largely irrelevant these days. It's all 1080i or 2160i for broadcast, with slight variations in colour gamut.

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

I know, it's daft that we still use interlace for broadcast. I'm sure there's some legacy reason for it, probably too do with the analogue equipment.

8k is doing okay in Japan, and it's not interlaced.

Re:

[e3m4n]

Everything I have read says the human eye cannot see beyond 4k and the race to 16k is marketing bullshit. Its like wasting codec space on frequencies only elephants can hear.

Re:

[saloomy]

To comfortably look at a 200" screen, you should be 23 ft back. you should have a 40 degree field of view. Take the tangent 200/(2xtan(20 degrees)) so it is 200 / 0.7276, which is 23ft.

At that distance, 4k would look just fine. You have human eyes, not eagle eyes.
The only application 8k makes a big difference is in immersive gaming situations where your FOV is 60 degrees. This is why 8k 23" monitors make no sense. Youd have to practically bump your nose to it to detect the level of detail, but at that

Re:

[cpurdy]

^ somebody upvote this ... it's the first intelligent post on this entire discussion.

If you want to understand more about why resolution higher than a certain level doesn't make any difference to normal humans looking at things in normal ways, drop by a photography forum and read the threads on printing photos, and how photographers optimize for the distance that the viewer will be from the printed photograph. Most humans looking at a printed photo can't tell the difference between 6mp and 200mp. It only

Re:

[e3m4n]

i think medical imaging makes sense so that someone could zoom in with great detail. Thats more on the recording side than the display side. 16k recording would be fantastic allowing you to pan and zoom even with a 1080p display.

Medical imaging

[DrYak]

i think medical imaging makes sense

Medical doctor here.I am working in research nowadays, but used to dwell quite some time in radiology back in the days.

so that someone could zoom in with great detail. Thats more on the recording side than the display side.

As you point out "zoom" is the keyword. The CRT monitors we had back then usually had 1600x1200 resolution at the very best, usually lower.
This absolutely wasn't a problem, as we would just zoom in if we needed to look into tiny details.

On the other hand, these were special black and white CRT with higher dynamic range able to display more than 256 levels of gray and having brighter maximum

Re: US sanctions

[SuperDre]

But most digital cinema has been even less dpi as 4k for a long time, and it never bothered anyone. And 4K is still used in most DC's and those screens are much larger as 200". I have a 118" screen at home with a 4K projector and I can tell you, 8K is still not necessary, even at that size.

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

Everything you have read is bollocks then. Go look at some yourself. I have a 4k monitor and I can see aliasing. I can also easily see the difference between a 4k and an 8k TV, from a few metres away. My eyesight isn't particularly good. Maybe I'm just sensitive to aliasing or something.

Re:

[e3m4n]

Mental masturbation. Unless you are within 3ft of an 85in TV you arent getting shit out of 8k. https://www.digitalcameraworld... [digitalcameraworld.com]

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

Read you own article. Specifically, this reference that they based the whole thing on: https://www.olympus-ims.com/en... [olympus-ims.com]

It says the ability to differentiate two lines next to each other, which is not what we are talking about.

Lucky you if you can't tell the difference I guess, you can save money and buy a cheaper display. For me, it's noticeable, as is the difference in motion clarity between LCD and Plasma/OLED, or 60Hz and 120Hz. I can tell in double blind tests, I know because I roped my wife into helpin

Re:

[Entrope]

Those calculations are very wrong, but they don't show their work so it's hard to be sure where they went wrong. Nominal visual acuity (6/6, or 20/20 in freedom units) is being able to resolve things at about 60 points per degree. Because people don't want to see pixels, display resolution should be about twice that. That means 4k (3840 by 2180) should subtend not more than 32 degrees by 18 degrees. An 8k display could be twice as large in each direction.

The trigonometry for display size is straightforw

Re: US sanctions

[paul_engr]

Way to be full of shit. You have not seen enough 8K content to be able to make that claim, for there simply is no 8k.

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

8k broadcasts have been going for years in Japan.

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[Targon]

The issue is about DPI, not about resolution. For a 27 inch display, 4k is going to be VERY good, and there is no need to go beyond 4k. At 40 inches and above, you start to see that 4k doesn't have the high DPI that a 27 inch 4k display would provide. I do remember the shift from SD to the early HD TVs, 720p and 1080i as well as 1080p. It is fairly obvious that 4k isn't the best you will get on a 55 inch or larger display.

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

I have a 4k 27" monitor and can see the pixels. It needs more.

Re:

[DesScorp]

Everything I have read says the human eye cannot see beyond 4k and the race to 16k is marketing bullshit. Its like wasting codec space on frequencies only elephants can hear.

Like audiophiles, it's going to become a status thing, and people will claim that they can tell the difference, even when it's biologically impossible for them to do so. Just shrug and let them waste their money.

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[kurkosdr]

Unfortunately, 1080p50/60 is not reliably supported in H.264 receivers, so the broadcast industry broadcasts in a hybrid mode called MBAFF which is 1080i50/60 but can include progressive frames to accommodate 1080p25/30. This allows them to broadcast both interlaced and progressive content in one stream.

H.265 receivers reliably support 50/60p even in 4K resolution so there is no interlaced in H.265.

Re:

[kurkosdr]

There is no such thing as "2160i". 4K is broadcast in H.265, and H.265 decoders reliably support 50/60p even in 3840x2160. And generally, nobody broadcasts or encodes interlaced in H.265. Interlaced is theoretically supported by H.265 but it's neither reliably supported by decoders nor used by broadcaster.

Re:US sanctions

[dfghjk]

what "US sanctions to shut down Chinese tech industries"? You know Trump is not President, right?

Re:

[gtall]

Yer right, the ability to believe el Bunko is something of which the Maggots cannot get enough.

Re:

[Targon]

The USA is a LARGE country, and there are different regions within the USA, some that have more informed and sophisticated people, others dominated by a mindset that would be similar to 15th century Europe.

Re:

[bill_mcgonigle]

> others dominated by a mindset that would be similar to 15th century Europe

Yes, de Tocqueville wrote in /Democracy in America/ about how in most of Europe when someome had a problem they would go to their local government minister demanding a solution but in America when facing a new problem people would rapidly form organizations and mutual aid societies and eschew any government involvement.

He noted that this system was an American Superpower but that it broke down the most in high density cities whic

Re:

[stripes]

Hopefully this punishment of the good ends in 31 days and we exile these unamericans to Europe

Lets make sure we are talking about the same WV miners and NC road. Oh, I guess it has been a while since slashdot let anyone put a hyperlink in the comments... https://www.timeswv.com/news/w... [timeswv.com]

I see tons of articles about this, but none about arrests or charges. Granted all I did was a google search for “NC road WV miners”, which is how I got the original set of articles about how awesome it is

This is stupid

[skam240]

What stories you people tell yourselves to justify your nonsense... "Some French guy came to the US almost 200 hundreds years ago when the country was completely different and practically empty and said this about America so we shouldnt have fucking laws anymore".

Re:

[FictionPimp]

Right, Biden is president and also:

https://www.bis.gov/press-rele... [bis.gov]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/18... [cnn.com]

https://www.business-standard.... [business-standard.com]

https://sanctionsnews.bakermck... [bakermckenzie.com]

Just a few Biden sanctions on China. There are more, but anti-China isn't just a Trump thing. It's bipartisan.

Re:

[cpurdy]

And the concerns are shared by all of China's neighbors, and most of the developed world ...

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

Bi-partisan in the US just means that the hard right and the far right agree.

Re:

[HetMes]

Oregon tried legalizing hard drugs, and that didn't go particularly well, did it? Only 4 years later, those masses that voted overwhelmingly in favor of decriminalizing drugs, repealed the act.
Drugs are a problem, and will remain a problem, given bounded resources. But you can't conclude from that that doing nothing would have been better.
The one thing about tariffs, is that they are an unbounded resource, and you can just keep rising them until you have the right balance.
Unless you foresee the appear

Re:

[geekmux]

Oregon tried legalizing hard drugs, and that didn't go particularly well, did it? Only 4 years later, those masses that voted overwhelmingly in favor of decriminalizing drugs, repealed the act.

When you say “didn’t go well”, are you referring to the 30,000 people who died in America abusing illegal hard drugs, or are you referring to the 100,000+ people in America that died abusing shit in a prescription bottle given to them by sponsored doctors and subsidized insurance plans?

Just trying to understand THAT fucking voter mindset.

Re:

[geekmux]

This is the reason I said sponsored doctors and subsidized insurance plans. Hell of a lot easier to kill with addiction when Greed is driving the pen down on the Rx pad and the government-subsidized price is ten bucks a bottle. As proven by statistics.

I just think demonizing the opium drug den is an bullshit stance when turning a blind eye to a the directly related problem of shoving opium in a prescription bottle and pretending those deaths don’t count.

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[Pinky's Brain]

Apart from some corrupt doctors prescribing to rich addicts I doubt overprescription of opioids is still a huge problem.

Addiction is still a huge problem, but so is pain.

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[fafalone]

First of all, decriminalization is not legalization; leaving the supply to the black market ensures violence, overdoses, and acquisitive crime are largely unaffected. Second, it was supposed to be accompanied by expanded treatment resources, which largely wasn't done. Third, public consumption should still be prohibited just like alcohol. Fourth, Oregon wasn't even substantially worse than other states with rising crime and homeless issues; it's another case of largely blaming the wrong things, just blaming

Re:

[Pinky's Brain]

Oregon's decriminalization of personal use posession just had obvious consequences, with just as obvious fixes.

Use public intoxication as a modifier to increase the punishment for posession.

Good

[devslash0]

Samsung and their forced app and spyware ecosystem annoy the hell out of me. It's time we find a replacement for their obnoxious brand.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Samsung and their forced app and spyware ecosystem annoy the hell out of me. It's time we find a replacement for their obnoxious brand.

We’re here talking about product out of China possibly fulfilling your request. What I’d like to know is why you feel you’d ultimately be any less annoyed. Would you prefer less obnoxious spyware, or simply more fashionable spyware so no one notices as much?

Best make up your mind soon. The obnoxious spyware clock is fashionably TikTok’ing away counting down the days to Zero Choice.

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[Ritz_Just_Ritz]

Indeed. Anyone who thinks they'll get LESS spyware from Chinese-branded TV's are just kidding themselves.

Sadly, there seems to be enough money in pushing this shite on consumers that no major brand seems to offer any real alternative for folks that just want a "dumb" TV to display content produced by a device of their own choosing. Many (all?) don't even appear to have any way of disabling the unwanted "smart" features.

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[usedtobestine]

My 3 year old Samsung 50" tv prompts me to accept the ToS and connect it to the internet ever time I power it on. Since I only use it as an hdmi monitor on two systems, I have no need to do so.

As far as TCL having less spyware than Samsung, well, not really. The only difference is where the data is sent.

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[Targon]

Even if they ask, that doesn't mean they might not have some way of spying.

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[stripes]

Even if they ask, that doesn't mean they might not have some way of spying.

While technically true, think about what they would need to do. First they would need to find an open WiFi, or brute force a WiFi password (maybe a dictionary attack, lots of WiFi passwords are not very complex & a TV tends to have an ongoing power source). Alternately they could use Bluetooth and attack the network stacks of any phones they find, but that seems even less likely to pay off. Also either of those might “

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[FictionPimp]

Yep, first thing my HiSense did was ask if I wanted a dumb TV or a GoogleTV. I said dumb and it works just fine and never needed an internet connection.

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[stripes]

Just bought a TCL and a Hisense model. Both asked if you wanted to just use the TV in a dumb tv mode, and not bother hooking it up the internet, etc. So far both are working fine with no issues using the dumb mode.

Nice!

When smartTVs were getting popular they were funded by all the spy where and targeted ads. When they dropped under the price of not-smartTVs it was basically because there is always a race to the lowest price because that is how you make the volume in that market and if you are making a de

Re:

[drinkypoo]

Weâ(TM)re here talking about product out of China possibly fulfilling your request.

I use a Moto phone. Moto is owned by Lenovo. It had no crapware that could not be simply uninstalled because it was all installed to the user partition. It was just a couple of apps like Facebook.

Now, could it be spying on me? Sure. It could be doing that. Is it? Maybe. Has anyone proven that it is? Nope. But it is provable that it doesn't have a bunch of crapware that cannot be removed, so clearly some Chinese vendors are willing and able to not send crapware, fulfilling at least one of the GP's requiremen

Re:

[e3m4n]

Because china would never spy on you??

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[AmiMoJo]

Technology Connections guy said on Blue Sky that he bought a TCL TV, declined all the agreements and didn't connect it to the internet, and it worked fine as a dumb display.

Samsung was the cheap brand.

[havana9]

Most of TV sets nowadays are built in China and rebranded nowadays, so doesn't seem strange that there are Chinese brands selling directly.
Samsung and LG (aka Goldstar) in the '80s were cheap brands, but their CRT were found easily inside brand TVs. I still have a Philips branded TV made in Taiwan, with a Samsung tube.

Re:

[Fly Swatter]

If it was made in the 80s that little hamster lives forever. Unlike anything made today.

Unless it was a vcr, then the hamster started squealing shortly before eating anything you put in it.

Are their cameras in them?

[RogueWarrior65]

This reminds me of a sci-fi short story where some woman insists on buying a specific TV. The TV has a special tuning feature that allows the viewer to watch what's happening in other people's houses. Turns out that everyone who has one of these TVs doesn't realize that there's a camera in them and they are providing the content.

Premium?

[drinkypoo]

China's TCL Overtakes Samsung in Premium Market For Ultra-Large TVs

Web site isn't a web site (It's a Javascript site, as you get no content without Javascript) so I didn't RTFA but since when is TCL chasing the premium market? Even for large TVs there are disparate price points.

When I looked at TVs this last time, TCL sets were generally panned for having flaky systems that would fail and leave your set worthless. Not the screen itself, but something about the system inside the TV, whether it's the OS or the storage or whatever. I wound up buying an LG and so far it's been

Re:

[bsolar]

Web site isn't a web site (It's a Javascript site, as you get no content without Javascript) so I didn't RTFA but since when is TCL chasing the premium market? Even for large TVs there are disparate price points.

The article is about LED TVs, not OLEDs. Samsung has been focusing their premium TVs on OLED panels since years and have announced plans to scale down and eventually abandon LED manufacturing. LG is doing the same.

Most TV brands either use OLED panels from Samsung/LG, or LED panels from Chinese manufacturers, typically reserving OLEDs for their most premium TVs.

Basically TCL has gained ground on Samsung in a market Samsung is not really interested in competing.

Re: Premium?

[SuperDre]

Funny, my brother has had 2 LG screens now and both of those presented problems within 1.5 years, now he has had TCL and still hasn't had a problem for 3 years now.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

Yes, I resisted buying a LG TV because it's, you know, LG. Everything I have had previously from LG has disappointed me.

However, the reviews on this set (43UT80) gave it high marks for quality but complained that it had laggy and generally useless STB functionality and interface in general. I have found this to be true. I hear that it now also absolutely rapes your eyeballs with advertisements, but I have never connected it to a network and plan to never use those features where you would see adverts (inclu

Re:

[Local ID10T]

I have a TCL Roku 48"(ish) tv. It is several years old, and has worked fine. It was an inexpensive (black friday sale) tv. 4K HDR. Acceptable sound quality (no glitches, but nothing special). No intrusive ads -there is a 1/3 screen static (non-animated) ad displayed on the main input selection screen typically. The quality is good.

I would not classify it as a high-end TV, but it has been an exceptional value.

Meh

[paul_engr]

Samsung has been dead for at least five years. Their TVs are dogshit. So dogshit that dog whisperer with cesar milian comes up every time you turn the fucking tv on. To have such great hardware kneecapped by whatever the fuck they do for software is a shame.

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[Hank21]

Samsung has been dead for at least five years. Their TVs are dogshit. So dogshit that dog whisperer with cesar milian comes up every time you turn the fucking tv on. To have such great hardware kneecapped by whatever the fuck they do for software is a shame.

So, who, if anybody has software that you like?

Re: Meh

[madbrain]

My 2020 vintage 82in Q70RZ features an infrared receiver. They don't go out of the way to tell you this. I have a programmable ARRX18GA universal IR remote. I downloaded the codes for Samsung TVs.
There are codes for each of the HDMI inputs. These codes turn on the TVx without showing any of the obnoxious bundled apps.
I use macros that turn on the receiver, source and TV all in one go, although you need to hold and point the remote while it executes. Small price to pay.
There are also RF to IR transmitters t

sentiment unchanged

[nagglerdamus]

Chinese TVs, once dismissed as "cheap and low-quality"

once, and still are

not to say it cant change--after all, japanese electronics were considered junk before they were great

Love mine

[Boolean algebra]

I just up-graded my 2009 Plasma 50" to the Samsung 65" Class - OLED S90D Series - 4K UHD OLED TV I have all the wireless off and no internet connection, HDMI inputs only. I LOVE the picture for everything, even does a good job on my old DVD's. No motion blur on motor sports and NFL or Comcast. Just watched Green Mansions ,1959, on the Comcast DVR and it actually was impressive for being that old. Everything else sharp as a tack, could not be happier with the set, remote is funky but unnecessary as the s