Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Music Google Open Source Television

Samsung and Google's New Spatial Audio Format Will Take On Dolby Atmos (theverge.com) 40

Posted by BeauHD from the we'll-see-if-it-catches-on dept.
Samsung and Google are introducing Eclipsa Audio, an open-source 3D audio standard set to debut on select YouTube videos and Samsung's 2025 TVs and soundbars. The new format "could eventually serve as a free alternative to Dolby Atmos, the dominant 3D audio format that hardware makers like Samsung pay to license for TVs and other equipment," reports The Verge. "Samsung says that similar to Atmos, this audio format supports adjusting 'audio data such as the location and intensity of sounds, along with spatial reflections' to create a 3D experience." From the report: The two companies first announced a partnership to develop spatial audio technology in 2023, initially calling it Immersive Audio Model and Formats (IAMF). At the time, Samsung spatial audio head WooHyun Nam said the format would provide "a complete open-source framework for 3D audio, from creation to delivery and playback."

The IAMF spec has also been adopted by the Alliance for Open Media, a group that has been pushing for royalty-free codec support since 2015 and counts companies like Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, and Netflix -- along with Samsung and Google -- among its members. If they also add support for this audio format, it could help it catch on, although it's already taken years for their AV1 video codec to see more use. Samsung and Google are also creating a certification program with the Telecommunications Technology Association "to ensure consistent audio quality" across devices using the format, which also sounds similar to the way companies like Dolby and THX manage the labeling for their specs.

Samsung and Google's New Spatial Audio Format Will Take On Dolby Atmos More | Reply

Samsung and Google's New Spatial Audio Format Will Take On Dolby Atmos

Comments Filter:

  • what about DTS-X?

    • I looked briefly and it says DTS:X is patented and licensed.

      Some people were complaining that on XBox their family members have different profiles and they "had to" buy a $14 DTS:X license for each profile on their one XBox. Apparently to use it on /headphones/ costs $20 too.

      It seems DTS's MDA container format is freely licensed.

      Their sound object format is pretty cool. I made a rudimentary one in college c. 1994. That was just a CSV basically.

      It's silly that 3D sound formats cost money thirty years later

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Some people were complaining that on XBox their family members have different profiles and they "had to" buy a $14 DTS:X license for each profile on their one XBox. Apparently to use it on /headphones/ costs $20 too.

        On Xbox, DTS-X is free to output via HDMI to a home theater receiver. It's the headphone support (in-app purchase) which decodes it to binaural audio which costs money.

    • Ogg Vorbis anyone?

  • I've had the misfortune of using a Samsung "Dolby Atmos" soundbar in the past, and found that most streaming applications just don't work correctly with it.

    Even when connected to a fairly recent Samsung Smart TV over HDMI ARC, neither Disney+, Prime Video, or Hulu offer Atmos support. They only offer 5.1 support, and even that didn't really sound right until I got the optional rear channel wireless speakers. Netflix and Apple TV+ work with it, but only with limited content. My XBox also has Atmos support, but it randomly stops working and falls back to Stereo sound. I've tried firmware updates and different HDMI cables, and nothing helped.

    After that experience, I wouldn't buy another Samsung audio product even it was on a half off sale. The compatibility headaches just aren't worth it.

    • Your post is missing the "I decided to get a Denon instead and everything worked out of the box." You've only listed problems. You've also listed a completely random set of problems that makes me question whether the sound bar is the issue.

      To be clear I've had problems with a Samsung soundbar too. I've also had problems with an Onkyo receiver and the JBL soundbar we have downstairs. The problem is less likely to have anything to do with the bar and everything to do with the damn streaming apps being poorly

      • the PC app for Prime I can't get working in HD

        There's a PC app for Prime? I had no idea. I've only ever used the web page. I don't have surround audio set up right now, but it seems to play in reasonably high resolution and in HDR. Bonus: the browser blocks the ads.

    • I'm not sure how you expected to get surround (of any format) to sound right without rear speakers. I guess that's what they promised you when they put the Dolby Atmos logo on it?

      Personally I would stay away from anything calling itself a "sound bar" unless your primary concern is aesthetics or there are space issues with speaker placement.

  • Will go over real well... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <slashdot@wo[ ]net ['rf.' in gap]> on Friday January 03, 2025 @09:25PM (#65060955)

    Atmos and DTS-X work right now with home theatre systems.

    The problem with other systems is how do they work with existing installed user bases? Because those systems already support Atmos and DTS-X, and users aren't going to replace their receivers and such with new systems that add support for other formats.

    For example, the PS5 uses Tempest, but takeup on it was slow because it didn't work with users with home theatre systems. The Xbox audio system did, however, so adding support for Atmos was easy. Sony eventually relented and licensed Atmos on the PS5 so Tempest could use that.

    (Atmos supports PCM audio with Atmos metadata so it's quite a mininmal amount of overhead). If the system cannot be used with current installed systems it's going to be a non-starter simply because no one's going to upgrade to get it.

    • Exactly this. I have expensive Marantz AVRs. The prices of new unit has skyrocketed in recent years.

      The only way I see this succeeding is if they put the decoder in the set top box or streaming stick, and it can be set to output multichannel PCM over HDMI. At that point, existing AVRs could process the signal according to the AVR's configuration. Any addiitional metadata would not be interpreted, though.

      • 3d audio is most valued by games

        if games studios can master and the engines can play the format with no fee's then it will be picked up

        frankly the atmos is a bit of a mess
           

        • Atmos sounfs fantastic in my 11.4 theater.

          Not sure games will be sufficient reason for uptame. AVRs, soundbars and TVs are not primarily gaming devices. Hardware manufacturers still have to support Dolby Atmos and DTS variants for compatibility with non-gaming media. So, they won't save on license fees.

      • and it can be set to output multichannel PCM over HDMI

        As far as I can see that would involve a conversion from spacial to surround. And if you're going to do that, why not just stream a regular surround track anyway?

        It'd be interesting to see if HDMI (or DisplayPort, let's be honest, HDMI sucks) is updated to support native PCM spacial audio at some point. I'd imagine as data transfer speeds improve to support higher resolutions, there'll be an increasing amount of bandwidth available for this kind of thing

        • Yes. As to your question, the regular surround tracks on streaming services are typically Dolby digital or DD+. There would still be license fees due presumably, just like for Atmos.

          As far as HDMI bandwidth is concerned, the numbers involved are much lower than for video. I don't think bandwidth is the limiting factor.

          DisplayPort is clearly superior to HDMI, and free of license or royalties fees, but is unavailable in home theater consumer gear such as AVRs and TVs. Perhaps some manifacturers will add Disp

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by leonbev ( 111395 )

      "Work" is a relative term. You need both a TV, a Soundbar/Stereo, and a Streaming hardware platform that supports Dolby Atmos for this to work right. Then you need the various streaming services to support Dolby Atmos for your chosen platform, and THEN you finally need the content itself to support Atmos.

      Because of all these requirements, maybe 10% of the content that you watch will actually be in Atmos when you try to watch it. If the content is more than 5 years old, it's practically guaranteed NOT to sup

    • While all this is true, I suspect two things are true:

      1. The vast, vast, majority of people do not have Atmos/DTS-X receivers.

      2. Of those who do, the majority have it because it's a bullet point on their receivers. If they have more than three speakers they probably have them in a 5.1 layout.

      It's not that there aren't people out there with it, it's just it's still a comparatively young concept. It took a good 20-30 years from "quadraphonic" being a thing to people actually buying surround systems (which by

    • Atmos and DTS-X work right now with home theatre systems.

      The day Atmos and DTS-X came out they didn't work with home Theater systems. And virtually zero people ran out and replaced everything just to support these formats.

      Hardware doesn't work forever. Audio formats are largely picked up via attrition or via upgrades for other reasons.

      • Dolby Atmos source devices can downmix the track to Dolby Digital/Dolby Digital+, which made the tracks playable on a substantial set of existing AVRs/TVs/soundbars. It's not clear what the situation will be with this new codec .

        • Absolutely no reason to suppose it'll be any different, any spacial format can be downmixed to a surround format at any stage in the chain, not just by the receiver.

          From what I can see though for the most part the thing that's driven people to buy new receivers over the last 10 years has been DD+, not the spacial codecs. You can watch pretty much any DVD or Blu-ray disc right now using an older 5.1 or 7.1 receiver and get excellent audio because any Atmos/DTS+ sound track is augmented by a standard surround

        • Here's the thing: Audio is not a big drain on bandwidth or storage. As it stands in most cases Atmos isn't downmixed, instead a 5.1 or 2.0 track is played instead. There's no reason to think this new codec won't simply be an additional offering for supported devices, selectable like it has always been in the past.

          • There is everything reason to think that some device manufacturers and streamers want to save on Dolby Atmos license fees. Not clear if the fees are only per devicex per movie, or per stream. Or how they can accomplish that, but the new codec is one part of the solution. Some devices have already dropped support for certain codecs. Samsung TVs dropped support DTS for example, even just pass-through.
            Hard to imagine AVRs dropping Dolby or DTS, though. But TVs and set top boxes could.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I'm sure my Kodi boxes will be able to software decode it. Transcoding to Atmos may be a licencing issue, so best to avoid Atmos only gear now.

  • Are Samsung one of the good guys in intellectual property & licensing?

    • would like to be proven wrong, but am getting worrying embrace, extend, extinguish vibes (see my comment about Ambisonics above)

  • If you're going with a digital standard (not many are worried about vinyl or tape any longer), just allow n parallel streams each with x, y, and z) coordinates and a relative volume, maybe
    a class so you can tag voice, instrument, foley, background, etc... then allow the decoding engine do whatever the hell it wants with that information.

    You could set truly custom mixes to get your personal best audio experience.

    • just allow n parallel streams each with x, y, and z coordinates and a relative volume ... then allow the decoding engine do whatever the hell it wants with that information.

      So something like OpenAL [wikipedia.org]?

      • I have a long history of coming up with ideas that someone else has already done better. I'll add this one to the list.

    • You mean spacial audio, like Atmos, DTS-X, and the subject of this article? ;-)

      Wikipedia doesn't have a "Spacial audio" article but if you head to the technology section of their article on Dolby Atmos [wikipedia.org] you'll see what we're talking about. Atmos allows 128 "channels" each with metadata giving the position the sound is coming from and volume.

      You can categorize current audio efforts as:

      1. Mono

      2. Stereo, (or surround), where multiple fixed channels are used to provide directionality, with the audio being premix

  • On one hand, relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/927/ [xkcd.com]. We have competing standards, so let's make a new one to compete with them.

    On the other, a proper patent-free standard would be nice.

  • ... that I will continue to ignore anything promising many more channels. I installed quite capable 5.1 speakers ~30 years ago, and the amount of "content" making actual good use of them is still disappointing. Yes, there are some audio-library ambient noises coming from the rear speakers in many movies, and some amount of reverb/echo will be mapped to these speakers. But even among big budget movie and video game productions, I rarely find sound sources actually come from specific directions, and dialog is

Slashdot Top Deals

"Now here's something you're really going to like!" -- Rocket J. Squirrel

Close