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DC Studios Chief Says Movie Industry Is 'Dying,' Claims Disney 'Killed' Marvel With Output Mandates (rollingstone.com) 116

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
DC Studios co-head James Gunn argues that the movie industry is "dying" primarily because productions begin before screenplays are complete, while also delivering a sharp critique of his former employer Marvel Studios, which he claims Disney has "killed" through output mandates.

Gunn dismissed common explanations for Hollywood's struggles like declining theater attendance or improved home viewing experiences, telling Rolling Stone that "the number one reason is because people are making movies without a finished screenplay." The filmmaker has implemented a strict rule at DC Studios requiring finished scripts before production starts, recently scrapping a project because its screenplay wasn't ready.

The director, who previously helmed three "Guardians of the Galaxy" films for Marvel, said Disney's corporate directive to increase output destroyed the studio's creative process. "They were under a corporate mandate, yeah. That wasn't fair. It wasn't right. And it killed them," Gunn said, referring to Marvel's mandated production quotas for movies and television shows. By contrast, Gunn said DC Studios operates without numerical mandates. "We don't have the mandate to have a certain amount of movies and TV shows every year. So we're going to put out everything that we think is of the highest quality," he explained.

DC Studios Chief Says Movie Industry Is 'Dying,' Claims Disney 'Killed' Marvel With Output Mandates More | Reply

DC Studios Chief Says Movie Industry Is 'Dying,' Claims Disney 'Killed' Marvel With Output Mandates

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  • "What evil lurks in the hearts of Scrum?" (Score:5, Funny)

    by Pseudonymous Powers ( 4097097 ) on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @09:05AM (#65457927)

    TIRED: "Shoot what? We don't even have a script!"

    WIRED: "Show biz has embraced agile!"

    • Re:"What evil lurks in the hearts of Scrum?" (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ThePhilips ( 752041 ) on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @09:47AM (#65458077) Homepage Journal

      Movie goers are the alpha testers.

      • I think we call that "early access release" these days. That's not even much of a joke. Just look at Alien Romulus, a great movie in many respects, but one that objectively had a post release change in VFX for the streaming / DVD release based on reviews from the theatrical release.

      • A very fair point, indeed.

        People just probably got smarter and developed more defenses against hype-creating film marketing departments and have had enough of paying money to see a cat in a bag.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kisai ( 213879 )

      The problem is Marvel movies are good, but increasingly creatively boring.
      DC movies meanwhile, are completely random disconnected nonsense, like DC is more concerned with protecting IP than producing anything that might tarnish Superman or Batman.

      Like "Arrowverse" CW TV was pretty good for what it was. "The Flash" was the best part of the DC Television universe.

      But they also made all of it run too long. They should have made every season an adaption of one storyline from the comics, and left it that. This n

      • It's worth noting we haven't really seen a new generation DC movie. The DCEU thing was a failure, definitely. It remains to be seen what Gunn will do with the thing, the new Superman film looks potentially interesting and a step away from Snyder's Batman-fan take but, I mean, there have been at least three bad Superman films before the DCEU even came into being.

        Anyway, point is we don't know what the new movies will be like.

        Also, Legends of Tomorrow was the best Arrowverse, fight me! ;-) (OK, minus season 1

  • This makes sense. I used to really like the marvel movies and looked forward to them but the last one I saw didn't have anything particularly interesting and the characters had lost all their individual personality. But I can't say anything I have seen since the pandemic in the theatres was particularly note-worthy. Of course I like regular adult movies, not cheap horror or cartoons or movies that were once cartoons so that limits my selection to around 10% of movies released. Maybe The Lord of the Ring

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Maybe The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter were the last gasp of the movie industry.

      But they're rebooting The Naked Gun franchise! With an all-new cast led by Liam Neeson! Oh, wait...

    • When I saw the poster for the new Fantastic Four movie, I thought it was generated by AI or by a fan in his basement. Then I saw the trailer... oh boy... this looks horrible... About all Marvel movies have bad CGI, bad acting, and dull and shallow scenario.
    • Lord of the Rings was an abomination, the result of pandering to an illiterate audience.

      I would watch Harry Potter's cast read a telephone book aloud, so it was hard to go wrong.

      There is a lot of good work being done today, even by Disney (Andor).

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        Emma Watson: Higgsley Squigglebotham. Five-nine-two Elkdale Terrace. Zero-two-zero, five-six-four-one, seven, seven, seven, seven.

        Gives me the chills. :-D

    • Yea...

      Except for Black Widow and Love & Thunder I just haven't been able to conjure or sustain much interest in Marvel post-Endgame. That seems to be the consensus of most of my friends who also like the genre. I don't know if we all underestimated just how much Chris Evans and RDJ were the "heart" of the franchise, or if the story just felt done after Endgame, or if there's just no way the bar set by Endgame will be topped anytime soon. But Marvel seems to be in "And oh, a bunch of this miscellaneou

  • eh (Score:2)

    by nomadic ( 141991 )

    "So we're going to put out everything that we think is of the highest quality"

    Let us know when you start.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tx ( 96709 )

      Ouch.

    • You know they haven't put out any movies yet, right?

      Gunn is in charge of a full reboot of the DC stuff. The DCEU were the "previous guys".

      It's arguably not even the same corporation any more, given Discovery bought WB.

  • Because he isn't. But it's not like DC movies are any better. When was the last time there was a DC movie that wasn't worse than a "meh" Marvel movie? The first Wonder Woman movie, or the last Christian Bale Batman movie?

  • It isn't "dying"... go make new stuff... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ctilsie242 ( 4841247 ) on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @09:22AM (#65457987)

    The movie industry isn't dying. People are just tired of the same old, washed up, grim, IP over and over again. Bring back the 80s with new, fantasy IP that isn't connected to some existing universe or is a spin-off. Bring back stuff that doesn't have the same Hollywood ending. Create IP that can have one standalone movie and not need sequels or reboots.

    For DC, enough with the darker and grittier aspects. Do something campy as an alternate timeline, bring back a less lethal, but annoying Joker, perhaps a Joker who is chaotic neutral rather than an elemental force of chaotic evil. We could use a 2 minute, 30 minute bomb disposal scene again.

    These are grim times. Time for the movie industry to realize that, and bring back more comedies. Naked Gun is a step in the right direction. Perhaps a Star Wars: Lower Decks?

  • The real solution is cheaper movies (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Voyager529 ( 1363959 ) <`voyager529' `at' `yahoo.com'> on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @09:33AM (#65458021)

    There are many issues with the movie industry at the moment...but I think that many of them can be addressed simply by making cheaper movies.

    If a studio commits to spending half a billion dollars on a movie, they're going to enforce extremely rigid parameters. If Gunn wants to get half-billion dollar budgets, he's going to have to deal with the fact that he won't be the director - the Board of Directors will be.

    The more practical approach is to pursue less expensive movies - $10M-$50M is a much better ground to work with, because the suits won't be as rigid on their direction. More creativity can flourish because there won't be as much pressure to be a paint-by-numbers film. There won't be expectations of making a billion dollars; if five $20M movies get made and one makes $200M and the other four only break even, the studio covered their costs and still doubled their money.

    So, yeah, apparently James is discovering that big piles of money come with rules. News at 11.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Apparently Andor cost $625 million for two seasons, and it's excellent. The Guardians of the Galaxy movies were around $250 million each to make, and are generally regarded as some of the best Marvel movies.

      While the corporate bean counters can ruin movies, to really succeed they just need to get good creative people and trust them.

      I'm still amazed that Andor was made. A lot of it was clearly based on current events, including the situation in Gaza and the first Trump presidency, and the second season is ba

      • Apparently Andor cost $625 million for two seasons, and it's never going to make that money back.

        FTFY.

        Note: I have no problem with products costing more money than they can make back, but I bet your left nut against your right nut Andor will be canceled. Very low chance there will be a Season 3.

        I was joking about your nuts. Not about Andor being very likely canceled, though.

        • > but I bet your left nut against your right nut Andor will be canceled. Very low chance there will be a Season 3.

          Nonexistent, given it was only supposed to be two seasons.

        • Considering that they already announced a month ago that there would not be a Season 3, that's not a difficult call.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          They said before season 2 started that there would be no season 3. The story is finished.

  • Stop milking the superhero movies (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Cyberax ( 705495 ) on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @09:58AM (#65458111)
    They should just stop doing the superhero crap. It's boring, you can play that only a few times before you start repeating the same tropes over and over again. It's just basically Greek god stories but with the modern entourage.

    • Oh, you have a power? I have power + 1! Oh yeah?! I have power + 5! Oh yeah?!! Turns out, I have power + infinity!

      This is basically every super hero movie I have ever seen.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Cyberax ( 705495 )
        You also forget the classic: "Oh, I have that superpower, but I'm also an angsty teenager that needs to impress his girlfriend". Or the eternal: "I retired because I think superhero powers are unethical, but now the Universe needs me to un-retire".

        I'd love to see a movie set in the Sanderson's Reckoners universe. It's a universe where the super-heroes (called "epics") are actively evil.

      • You forgot to resolve all conflict with time travel at the endgame.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Tx ( 96709 )

        My favourite superheroes, such as Batman and Black Widow, have no superpowers, so there are at least a few exceptions to that. But yeah, that is generally the problem with the genre.

        • I didn't like twisted sickness that infected the Deadpool movies; couldn't even finish the 1st one. However, in the 2nd one they should have done more with that lady with the power of LUCK! That was perfect to be satirical on no-power superheroes.

          Batman totally has a super power; although, a few movies get close to removing his luck powers. Black Widow is even more lucky.

        • My biggest problem with the Marvel (sans Spiderman) and DCEU stuff was the insistence on a format that made it hard, if not impossible, to explore what the actual consequences of the superpower was.

          The original Superman films (at least, one and two, maybe three if it hadn't been badly written), and the first Wonder Woman, were examples of the genre done right. Likewise the Ms Marvel TV show which added both a "I have powers" and a "Culture you're not familiar with" thing to make it genuinely interesting. Wh

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by flink ( 18449 )

        You can do the same thing in SF with :"technobabble gizmo + 1", or in fantasy with magic systems, or war movies with secret weapons. How you resolve the action is just a macguffin, what actually matters is how deep and interesting are your characters and do you have an interesting story to tell. If those things are true, the plot can be as goofy as you want and people will still connect to it.

    • They should just stop doing the superhero crap. It's boring, you can play that only a few times before you start repeating the same tropes over and over again. It's just basically Greek god stories but with the modern entourage.

      Superhero movies make up a tiny minority of releases, and are definitely not the worst of what Disney is pushing. Good superhero movies still make decent money and are still entertaining. What you can do about this is: go watch something else. There were a handful of superhero movies released in 2024, out of 569 total movies in the USA alone. There's something out there for you if you want to go look.

    • Re:Stop milking the superhero movies (Score:4, Interesting)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @10:45AM (#65458245) Homepage Journal

      There are still interesting stories to tell. Suicide Squad and Peacemaker were both pretty good, and I'm hopeful that his new Superman movie is similarly interesting.

      The issue is the saturation of the market with crap superhero stuff, with second rate characters and a focus on introducing new ones and setting up the next movie, rather than telling a complete and interesting story.

      I like how Gun leans into the comic book silliness in his works. They aren't parodies, but they do acknowledge how silly it all is. Peacemaker, the character, is basically a satire of US foreign policy, and that's something that we have only really scratched the surface of. I do wonder how far he could take it, like could he do a Bananaman movie where the whole basis of the character and villains is parody, or is there a limit to it? Certainly the movies that have set out to be funny, like Shazam, have been fairly uninspiring.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Cyberax ( 705495 )

        There are still interesting stories to tell. Suicide Squad and Peacemaker were both pretty good

        Eh. Still pretty stereotypical, even with a freaking secret Nazi base.

    • They should just stop doing the superhero crap. It's boring, you can play that only a few times before you start repeating the same tropes over and over again. It's just basically Greek god stories but with the modern entourage.

      I agree. It was amazing when they first started coming out. Now I'm tired of it. I'm tired of time travel stories too.

      Here's the thing though: the beauty of free markets is Disney is free to try one approach, DC is free to try another. We'll see in the end which one works out better. I don't really care which approach they use as long as great content eventually shows up on my screen. I personally can't keep up with all the Star Wars and Marvel content Disney is cranking out so I'd be pretty happy if they s

  • Maybe the movie industry is dying because it became obsessed with feasting on its own rot. Case in point, if you think Disney/Marvel played a significant role in killing the movie industry, the industry itself could be blamed for allowing one studio to control that much of the industry.

    That said, maybe the movie industry needs to die. And maybe, just maybe, some of those really good indie films that get produced year after year but barely get any recognition can start being recognized for being as good as t

  • The "content" industry will adapt. (Score:4, Informative)

    by williamyf ( 227051 ) on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @10:24AM (#65458189)

    When westerns fell out of favour in the late '70s and early '80s, the content industry was able to adapt across radio, TV and full lenght film.

    and westerns were MUCH MORE prevalent than superhero has been.

    do not worry, the content industry will adapt once more...

  • ... endless superhero movies.
    It's also a lack of creativity with remakes, reboots, "franchises" and other endless retelling of old stories.
    Theaters are dinosaurs that deserve to die. They were once necessary because of the tech of the time, but today there is nothing pleasant about the theater experience

  • The real reason is that they issued so many superhero movies that people got bored. How many times can you watch someone save the world over and over again? It's like they only know one plot line.

  • James Gunn gave a revealing interview this week about the state of Hollywood, blaming "output mandates"—studio demands to meet yearly content quotas regardless of script readiness—for the industry's ongoing collapse. He’s not wrong, but let’s be honest: this isn’t a new problem. It’s a return to form. Hollywood has always been about quantity over quality. What’s different now is that the illusion of quality no longer holds.

    The average audience member isn’t dem

  • They're out in stores before the movie is finished!

  • most movies nowadays are nothing but a vehicle for propaganda. stop stuffing ur gay race communism into films and focus on the story. the studios don't care about losing money cause this propaganda is like a religion to them, they will have to go out business so something can emerge from its ashes. i have stopped paying attention to movies for the most part, i only see a half a dozen movies a year at most and i torrent them. not gunna risk $15/ticket to see something that'll i'll probably have to suffer thr

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