Japan's Digital Pop Stars Blur Line Between Virtual and Reality (wsj.com) 56
An anonymous Slashdot reader shares a report about Japan's virtual YouTubers or VTubers that act as live performers, corporate PR officials and even surrogate children. From The Wall Street Journal: Ryosei Takehisa, 24 years old, doesn't have any children -- unless you count an animated character with elfin ears called Mikuriya Kuon. In live appearances on YouTube, the kimono-clad Kuon character, voiced by an actor hired by Mr. Takehisa, dispenses advice about the latest video games and plays rock-paper-scissors with her fans. The creator says he considers Kuon his "real daughter" even though she "resides within pixels." While others may compete for fame or page views, "for me, I'm totally satisfied just with the fact that she was born and is continuing to live life in good health," says Mr. Takehisa. Digital avatars with human traits have long carved out a role on social media, on Instagram in particular. Japan, as it often does, has taken the idea and run with it, with its virtual characters now estimated to number more than 3,000.
Technology allows Kuon and her peers to have more direct engagement with fans -- and sometimes a family-like relationship with their own creators. The characters, known as virtual YouTubers or VTubers because many are active on YouTube, sing and dance at live performances and answer questions on webcasts. VTubers are so embedded in Japanese culture that one of them serves as a face of the Japanese government's tourism campaign. Another presented earnings results for game-site operator Gree Inc. in August last year, informing investors that "we will aggressively invest in strengthening our three earnings pillars." "VTubers are an evolution in Japan's long tradition of manga and anime, giving real-time interactivity to the sort of characters earlier depicted in comic books and on television screens," the report says. "The next step could be artificial intelligence to allow the VTubers to sing, dance and be mischievous without any backstage human help."
Sony is trying to further extend one of their latest pop sensations, a VTuber called Kaguya Luna, by building on its virtual-reality technology. "It has already staged concerts by Luna that fans view through a VR headset," reports The WSJ. "Next the company is looking into haptic technology -- which can convey vibrations and force -- to allow fans to get up close and personal with Luna."
Technology allows Kuon and her peers to have more direct engagement with fans -- and sometimes a family-like relationship with their own creators. The characters, known as virtual YouTubers or VTubers because many are active on YouTube, sing and dance at live performances and answer questions on webcasts. VTubers are so embedded in Japanese culture that one of them serves as a face of the Japanese government's tourism campaign. Another presented earnings results for game-site operator Gree Inc. in August last year, informing investors that "we will aggressively invest in strengthening our three earnings pillars." "VTubers are an evolution in Japan's long tradition of manga and anime, giving real-time interactivity to the sort of characters earlier depicted in comic books and on television screens," the report says. "The next step could be artificial intelligence to allow the VTubers to sing, dance and be mischievous without any backstage human help."
Sony is trying to further extend one of their latest pop sensations, a VTuber called Kaguya Luna, by building on its virtual-reality technology. "It has already staged concerts by Luna that fans view through a VR headset," reports The WSJ. "Next the company is looking into haptic technology -- which can convey vibrations and force -- to allow fans to get up close and personal with Luna."
You can almost hear Abe... (Score:4, Informative)
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I suppose in the future it's conceivable that sentient AI may gai
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One way or another it is a self correcting problem.
Tetsuwan Atom (Score:2)
They're taking the story of Astro Boy a little too far
But honestly this must be such an empty relationship. I don't get it. It doesn't matter how much "personality" they use or how good their script writers are. How do they achieve any suspension of disbelief? Surely nobody can feel an actual connection with something that could never truly reciprocate. Is there any way they keep fulfilling people unidirectionally?
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I'm not familiar with the story you're referring to, but idol worship isn't som newfangled thing. It's been going on since the advent of human history.
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Surely nobody can feel an actual connection with something that could never truly reciprocate. Is there any way they keep fulfilling people unidirectionally?
The divorce rate suggests that not feeling an actual connection is quite common. Probably many "relationships" with software will be at least at fulfilling as a shallow and unfulfilling relationship with a human.
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>>It doesn't matter how much "personality" they use or how good their script writers are.
Interesting choice of words. Because I'd say an awful lot of media carries through and the masses don't care if it's [lots of hipster words here].
For a more specific example, consider the way we worship in the music industry, aka the image industry. Hollow mass-printed crap is what we want. Your post questions how "substantial" this stuff is, and I argue no one cares. Quality won't matter, what does is closer to a concept of loyalty/addiction/appeal. If you or I want good work, then we're the weirdos.
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Surely nobody can feel an actual connection with something that could never truly reciprocate.
Not familiar with religion, are you?
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Believe it or not, seeking fulfillment from others is what causes many psychological issues in people.
Besides, plenty of people love their pets, even though most of them don't fully reciprocate. Maybe you can argue dogs and cats really do "love" their owners, but how about a lizard? Or a goldfish? A virtual character is going to be much more responsive than a goldfish, and with human script writers adding new interactions all the time and improvements in AI and rendering technology, it'll only get more real
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I mean, people feel connections to all kinds of fictional characters. They mourn when their favorite superheros die, they rejoice when a new season of their favorite show comes out. Hell, even musicians are rarely showing you what they are really like in their day to day lives, and people find profound connections to them. In short, every public figure is fictional to one degree or another. Suspension of disbelief is the norm, not the exception.
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Surely nobody can feel an actual connection with something that could never truly reciprocate. Is there any way they keep fulfilling people unidirectionally?
Have you ever seen a hen try to hatch a soccer ball? The hen considers it more fulfilling than hatching her own eggs.
It's been said before, it'll be said again (Score:2)
the return of timesharing (Score:2)
You can't all marry her [wikipedia.org], that would be megabigamy. They'd have to throw her in computer jail for over 10,000 ns.
Re: It's been said before, it'll be said again (Score:3)
It's been said before, it'll be said again. WTF Japan
I've been observing Japanese cultural behavior my entire life and my theory is that their society is so homogeneous and conformist that when individuals find themselves 'breaking free,' they have no frame of reference or sense of direction how to be themselves.
The results can be pretty amusing... or just sad.
Re:It's been said before, it'll be said again (Score:4, Interesting)
Virtual pop stars are a grass roots movement in Japan, a democratization of pop culture that hasn't really been seen anywhere else.
The first was Hatsune Miku. She started life as the face of a voice pack for a software synth for backing vocals, but people started making music with her as the lead singer and uploading them to sties like Nico Nico (similar to YouTube). She grew from there.
Japanese people like their privacy so the opportunity to do semi-anonymous pop music was appreciated. It was collaborative too, with other people creating music videos for the popular tracks.
Virtual YouTubers was the next logical extension. Some people were already appearing on camera wearing masks to keep their real identity secret. Eventually software to animate avatars along with a voice-over, even in real-time, became available and it became feasible to use them instead. That also means people who don't want to appear on camera at all can participate in the culture.
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I have seen that hitting the US as well. You hit major anime cons, and find people have spent thousands to not just do a Miku costume, but a 3D printed kigurumi mask as well. With all the spying and invasions of privacy, it is no wonder why people dress up as anonymous anime characters.
Code (Score:5, Insightful)
"Next the company is looking into haptic technology -- which can convey vibrations and force -- to allow fans to get up close and personal with Luna."
So code for being able to fuck them?
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"Next the company is looking into haptic technology -- which can convey vibrations and force -- to allow fans to get up close and personal with Luna."
So code for being able to fuck them?
I guess that's still less creepy than the dakimakura pillows?
Re:Code (Score:4, Informative)
So code for being able to fuck them?
Why the question mark at the end? That is pretty much certain. I mean one of Steam's best selling game of July was Koikatsu Party https://www.polygon.com/2019/7... [polygon.com] which even has a nice VR patch available.
People would get excited in their pants for the chance of interfacing this with a virtual vibrator in the most literally sense.
THAT VOICE (Score:2)
I clicked on the "Kaguya Luna" URL and ended up covering my ears... that voice is drilling my skull.
I guess it's a cultural thing, I don't feel a shred of interest towards such things.
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Virtual & Reality (Score:1)
It's called a mascot... (Score:2)
Disney's has been doing that with anthropomorphic animals since forever.
ummmm (Score:2)
can I get a real Super Pochaco?
https://www.amazon.com/Taito-S... [amazon.com]
why are real life self-described "a few extra pounds" women never built like THAT
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Because they think "a few extra pounds" means "100 extra pounds."
I'm so glad I'm married and no longer in the dating scene. It was a total shitshow when I was in it and it seems like it's 100 times worse now.
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That's all well and good, UNTIL the girl you married blows up by an extra 100lbs, and then you are legally stuck with her.
if you try to trade for a newer, move svelte model, you lost half your shit.
They all have that potential you know....
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That's all well and good, UNTIL the girl you married blows up by an extra 100lbs, and then you are legally stuck with her.
My wife is Asian, and so far she's still slim and pretty and 20 years younger than me. I don't think I have much to worry about.
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if you try to trade for a newer, move svelte model, you lost half your shit.
No need for me to do that, I'm quite happy with the one I have. I got very lucky (although I like to think some of it was skill...) She's still quite svelte. :)
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They all have that potential you know....
Yes, but not all of them think that way. In contrast, a LOT of American women view divorce as just another tool in the toolbox and will bail the first time things get difficult.
My first wife (my "training wife") was Americ
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Well American woman are a lot like men in terms of personality traits and are becoming more and more so with each generation. Except that they find it a lot easier to bail when anything in the relationship is sub-optimal. At least until she hits 35-40 and is no longer attractive to most people it is a lot easier for her to replace you than it is for you to replace her and she acts accordingly. For them men are just a commodity and completely disposable and totally replaceable.
It isn't that SE Asian women ar
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Seems sad to me (Score:3)
Am I the only person that thinks this whole thing is sad, and reeks of a kind of desperate loneliness?
These people will become 'involved' with their VR girlfriend/boyfriend, and 20 then years later will wake up and realize their pissed their life away on a bunch of colored pixels instead of meeting a real person.
Yes, a relationship with a real person certainly has its ups and downs....but they're a real person.
Think of all the VR-obsessed people that will cheat themselves out of having a life by having a 'relationship' with a digital avatar. That just seems very sad to me.
Re:Seems sad to me (Score:4, Insightful)
Hey, it's one more relationship than a lot of basement dwelling neckbeards have today!
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Am I the only person that thinks this whole thing is sad, and reeks of a kind of desperate loneliness?
No, but you've done a singularly poor job of arguing your case. Watch:
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If you can just switch the words around and reach the opposite conclusion, you haven't said anything important.
That seems like a spectacularly stupid thing to say.
If you really see no substantive difference between having a 'relationship' with an animated character and having a relationship with an actual person, then I feel sorry for you. Not kidding, I feel genuine sadness for you.
I kind of suspect you're not married and never will be, but no matter- Boogiepop Phantom and Isekai Quartet will be on soon and you can console yourself with some colored pixels while dreaming of a real woman to share your life with.
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The problem with your argument is that you assume real women are better simply because they are real, with no explanation given.
However, what matters to most people is what they personally experience. In that sense, a "fake" woman can be just as good, or even better than the real one. The real person has ups and downs. They get angry, jealous, sick and unfaithful. They hate some things that you really enjoy and vice versa. Even if you find the perfect partner, they change over time from someone you like to
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"And then there's the problem of proving reality is real. No one can prove we're not all living in the Matrix, and that your "real" person is just a higher fidelity simulation anyways."
And we can't prove that Spongebob Squarepants is not God, or that leprechauns really don't exist.
I really hate this inverted prove that it's bullshit, because this is a cheap way to for people try to lock others into their belief system, and shift the burden of proof of their beliefs on others. And careful wit
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The problem with your argument is that you assume real women are better simply because they are real, with no explanation given.
If I have to explain to you why a real live woman or partner is better than an animated cartoon, no amount of explanation will ever be enough. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
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However, what matters to most people is what they personally experience. In that sense, a "fake" woman can be just as good, or even better than the real one.
Ummm, no. The fake one can't have sex with me, pick me up if my car breaks down, cook an impromptu dinner, go swimming with me, tell me gossip about some
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But it doesn't matter since your own copy will never cheat on you.
How do you know that? You don't. 'Your' copy could be out doing anything...
Because it's a program on my computer, which will not be running if I'm not around and the computer's off. Man you really do sound old when you say that.
And then there's the problem of proving reality is real. No one can prove we're not all living in the Matrix, and that your "real" person is just a higher fidelity simulation anyways.
WRONG. It literally does not matter one bit if we're living in the Matrix. Our perceived reality is all we have to go by and we have to deal with whatever 'reality' we're presented with.
Thanks for making my point. Reality is what we perceive. If someone can obtain happiness through their perception of virtual reality, then that happiness is not any less real than if it had been acquired from actual reality.
I think the difference between you and me is that I can enjoy myself regardless of who I'm with, whether it's being alone, hanging out
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The stuff you listed for what a real woman can provide, I can acquire myself with less hassle: sex toys, porn, Uber and Chinese takeout. As for the rest, do I even want those? I can go swimming with a friend or just by myself. Gossip is literally a waste of time. A virtual girlfriend can console me just fine, as can my regular friends and family, not that I need consoling like you do. Oh and a threesome? That's hilarious. How many real women you know said yes to that? Now consider how many virtual girlfriends would say yes.
Wow, your life must be incredibly bleak if you think that "sex toys, porn, Uber and Chinese takeout" are an equal substitute for actual human companionship.
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I can go swimming with a friend or just by myself.
No, djinn, you have to go swimming by yourself, you don't have a girlfriend or lover to do it with you.
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A virtual girlfriend can console me just fine,
I don't think so. Also, how would you know, since you've clearly never had one? Be honest- even you don't believe that an app you downloaded can be a satisfying stand-in for another person or you wouldn't be here stridently arguing for it. That's just
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You still don't get it do you? I've had real women, and I realized that they're not all that special. It's not that "sex toys, porn, Uber and Chinese takeout" can't replace women, they're actually better than women. Most women I'm dating can't even cook as well as I can, let alone an actual restaurant.
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They aren't AI they use voice actors so it's more like digital cosplay...
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On the upside: this man is satisfying his desire for children without actually creating one. This removes most of the stress and financial burden on himself, and all of the population burden on the rest of the world.
(Yes, I'm aware that Japan's population is declining and
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but they're a real person.
You say that as if it has some intrinsic meaning to people who would choose to love a digital avatar in the first place. People come in all sorts. There are those motivated to change the world. There are those motivated to constantly do ... anything (I'm in this group, I quickly get bored without a project). There are those that will waste the day watching TV. And there are those which will blow their life on booze on while being on social security.
In all of these groups there are sad people, and in all of
Musicians next (Score:2)
I think Sharon Apple is the best singer.
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And her brother Tim is a hell of a CEO.
Sony is trying ... (Score:2)
"It has already staged [performances] by Luna that fans view through a VR headset," ... "looking into haptic technology -- which can convey vibrations and force -- to allow fans to get up close and personal with Luna."
"Up close and personal " with "vibrations and force" while wearing a VR headset. Yeah, we all know where THIS is going.
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You mean Lawnmower Man [imdb.com]?
Japan is probably heaven ... (Score:1)
Things will be bad when Fortnite shuts down (Score:2)
I wonder how many people are going to flake out when they log on to Fortnite, only to get a "cannot connect to server" message that will be forevermore, Things will be even worse if they consider their in game character their progeny.
This turning virtual characters into your son/daughter is very bad, and a bit disturbing, It will get real ugly when they lose their virtual character, and I won't want to be near any of them when that happens.
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Don't worry fortnite will be a ghost town when that happens as most of them will have all moved on the next new thing.
Please stop linking to the WSJ (Score:3)
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All the more reason to not read TFA, per Slashdot tradition.
wealth and idle time (Score:1)
Automation and energy technology will soon provide the world with a lot of wealth and idle time (for lack of a better phrase).
(*I'm assuming we'll find some way to distribute wealth, because if we don't I think we eventually go back to sustenance existence under autocracies)
I REALLY worry about how we will meet the leisure and travel demands of future populations. e.g. old European cities are becoming amusement parks already, and are about to get really crazy with
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I keep hearing that, but what happens in dirt poor 3rd world countries? I bet the dying kid sleeping on the piece cardboard, covered in flies, and waiting for the local warlord and his gang to finish him off will look longingly at this new utopia.
That is, if it ever happens, which I feel it won't given human nature.
I think we will have something much more like the movie "Metropolis", and it will really suck to be in the lower classes then.
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Yeah, definitely not an all or nothing scenario.
I'm not saying it is around the corner, but not too long ago a lot of the population of china was dirt poor, and now they are not, and are looking to experience the world. Same for US - People are out and about everywhere e.g. our national parks are getting swamped.
And I'm not saying we'll all go virtual for our idle time, just that it is going to have to be part of how we meet the needs. And probably in coordination with population control... though if Jap